Table of Contents
Nikon D850
Reader Interactions
Reader Comments
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I mainly wanted to give a big thumbs up for speaking about the practice out there of killing bugs for pictures. It’s amazing how often this is done, and even taught out there. It’s at the point where you assume any amazing insect picture was taken in this manner.
I’ve got a D500 so I’ll be interested in keeping up with the review as it changes. I suspect there will be some thoughts/advice that can be “backtracked” to a D500. :)
Turtle Cat, we will be updating the review within the next week heavily, so stay tuned for a lot more information!
it sucks better 5dsr
I am sorry, but having actually shot with the Canon 5DS R last year, I can tell you that it does not even stand a chance against the D850 :) But I can understand why a Canon shooter would say this.
I am Canon shooter and I use the 5DSR. Nikon D850 FTW. I would definitley switch if it wasn’t for the glass. Secretely hoping Canon will come up with a serious competitor soon.
They always play leap frog with each other, bet sometime next year Canon and Sony will come out with cameras to mach or better the D850.
Sony already has an answer for the D850 in the form of the A7R III..I personally feel that the Sony offering is better but the D850 is still a very good camera..
Keep in mind that a Nikon shooter heavily invested in glass and accessories will not even consider another brand like Sony or Canon. The same is true for others. Anyone who switches systems just because one camera is better is wasting a lot of money and time.
I was a Canon shooter with a bunch of Canon glass. I switched to Nikon on a trial basis when the D800 came out. Before the 5DSR the old 5D2 and 5D3 just never looked the same. As a landscape and seascape shooter I started to think of 36mp as my standard for my 2×3 wall prints. As I printed more, I realized I really couldn’t go back. I did get a 5DSR and I do like the camera. At the time, Nikon didn’t have dual axis tilt shift lenses so the Canon 5DSR used the 17 and 24 tilt shift lenses for many locations. Now Nikon, Sigma, and Tamron has many ultra wides to choose from few tilt shift. I keep the 5Dsr to shoot for those times I need the 17 and use the Nikon single axis tilt shift for the others. With the D850 (and a bunch of practice), I’m planning on using focus stacking in place of tilt-shift at many locations. Time will tell.
Nikon do have great tilt shift lenses… Check them out!
Just a reminder that the Sony A7r3 has yet to be delivered so who knows what it actually will turn out to be. The A7R3 still does not seem to allow for lossless compressed. All the files will be 81 mb and never come close to the D850 61 mb lossless compressed number. I know Sony makes money making/selling cards, but shouldn’t they give us photographers the choice of lossless compressed? Then we can compare the two cameras for speed more accurately.
Well now you know is the superstar of the FullFrame world and it beats the 850D in everything but the slight MP count so yeah…guess your fanboy comment feels pretty dumb now. Its ok, the 850 is still the best DSLR out there..just not the best full frame camera ;)
Nasim, is that comparison from memory or did you actually compare the images side by side? I say this b/c the only time I ever see any Canon mentions on this site is when you have something negative to say about Canon. I get it that you shoot Nikon, but to only say negative things about Canon is not really doing a comparison. And for the record, I don’t shoot either, I shoot Sony and Panasonic. Would love to see more non Nikon reviews too.
Jamie, I did an actual comparison when shooting with the 5DS R. Aside from the new Canon 5D Mark IV that has much better dynamic range, all other Canon bodies suffer pretty badly when recovering details, including the 5DS R. Unfortunately, I haven’t had much time to post my review, but there were quite a few issues I noticed with the 5DS R – I wasn’t very happy with the performance of that camera for landscapes.
OUCH, OUCH!!
projectrawcast.com/an-op…nnovation/
If you’re a Canon fanboy this isn’t an article you want to read for leisure purposes.
Saw that article, however, it does appear that Canon is still king of the hill when it comes to sales and when it comes to photo journalist on the sidelines of professional sports. Of course that could change and I suppose we’ll see. But right now, Canon rules and I guess it all comes down to the bottom line. Hopefully this camera can help save Nikon’s bottom line.
I am quite happy with shadow recovery with 5DSr up to +2EV. AF module is quite good (in terms of precision). It is still a good and dependable body. I also don’t see huge difference at high ISO as well.
Now 5DSr is definitely not a rival to D850 in terms of speed and video but not as bad as some says. Is it old? Yes, about the same generation as 5DMarkIII. Horrible? No way…
I like your sense of sense of humour :))))
There was a time I was very sceptical about Nikon D850. But now after reading reviews and tweaking NEF files – well D850 did blow my socks off!
In my book it is the best DSLR so far.
Just reading the summary keeps me from digging further into this review. 5 stars out of 5 in all categories, makes it difficult to take this review seriously. No camera is perfect; not even the D850. Really?
Lars, we have not yet given any stars to this camera – those are blank stars :) That’s why the headline on the front page says “Review Rating:” with nothing right next to it. We cannot give any stars out until the camera is fully tested. We have 3 camera samples at the moment and we will report on any issues, if we find any.
As you can see, it was very early at the time of my comment in Denmark so eh… eh… eh…, argh crap, I cannot dig myself out of this one :-(
Sorry, my mistake :-)
No problem Lars, I thought that you probably just didn’t see the info right – those stars look faint even when they are disabled, so I can see why you were confused.
That’s hilarious :)
Nsaim, then you should mark this a bit more clearly, as I also had the same impression as Lars (5/5)…
Same! ;D
Well… Same
You’ve got three samples? I’m having trouble getting one!!
Anyway, since you’ve got three, would you please check for the QC issue Lloyd Chambers and others are finding, originally reported as wrong flange distance, now apparently due to the flange and sensor not being parallel? It looks like Nikon’s quality control leaves something to be desired yet again.
Lars,
I believe the D810 scored a 5 on every category except High ISO, where it scored a 4.5. Pretty perfect.
If the D850 is better at all then…
Damn !!! The mRAW is usable ! Still limited compared to 14 bits lossless, but it’s a huge step in the right direction ! Can’t wait to see more in the article :)
Jef, yes, that was a big shocker for me personally. That’s a pretty big deal, because it gives a great option to shoot in lower resolution when all 45 MP are not needed.
Man thank you so much for testing this part. You are the only one who is testing it…And it is sooo important for wedding photographers to have the choice to choose an mRAW.
Maybe you will push the comparison further with 14 bits lossless?
Anyway really great job, god bless you
Jef, there is no 14-bit lossless option with mRAW / sRAW – only 12-bit is available. 14-bit is only possible with full RAW files, that’s the current limitation.
So sad…Is a 14-bit full resolution a lot more better than mRAW for shadow recovery?
Jef, not really – there is not a huge difference. 12-bit is going to be enough for most needs in my opinion, especially portraiture.
Good to know, thanks :)
Thanks Nasim …nay “Rachmad” ;)
well, me too I’m interested in the difference between mRaw (12 bit) vs 14 bit lossless compressed. While I won’t go much sport (and if any, I’ll choose DX 14 bit lossless compressed, basically shooting like I did with the D500 from where I’m coming from), the mRaw could be really great for everything which isn’t too critical, besides somewhere I have read that those two extra bits tend to give you info in the (deep) shadows rather than in the highlights, so if the image is properly lit, this shouldn’t be an issue anyway.
Dino, I believe John Sherman already demonstrated that it is very difficult to see differences between 12-bit and 14-bit RAW. For most day to day shooting, 12-bits is more than enough. However, for shooting landscapes and the like, 14-bit still gives you the best your sensor can offer.
Of course it is. Question is, does it have the same resolution as a shot taken with, say, D750.
Iliah, I want to put together a comparison of mRAW on the D850 and compare it to real output of the D750. That will be interesting :)
That would be indeed extremely interesting!
Thank for the great review Nasim, I was really looking forward to read it!
So, speaking of mRAW and sRAW files, I still have few doubts about it: as far as I understood we will get 12 bit RAWs, less detailed than original RAWs but with the same dynamic range as original files, is it correct?
Still cannot understand how and why the raw compression can affect sharpness and detail as seen in your test!
Stefano, we are getting a real 12-bit file that is not demosaiced, which is already great news. Yes, dynamic range is preserved as a result! This is how sRAW should have been in the first place. I will post the second part of my findings as it relates to how much noise we will be seeing when shooting at high ISOs – that will be an interesting study. If noise is reduced well, mRAW and sRAW will be good options to shoot, especially for portrait photographers.
Nasim, thanks for digging into mRAW and sRAW so thoroughly. Why do you think Nikon doesn’t just give us what we want… hardware level pixel binning? Is there a technical limitation of some sort? The current mRAW and sRAW implementation seems to involve some of the image data being dropped/skipped.
Marco, hardware pixel binning is not a very easy task to achieve and all camera manufacturers have not figured out a way yet, including Nikon and Canon. That’s why we have all these weird implementations that involve firmware / software. I wish someone started doing this via hardware, since it would really push the industry forward. I cannot wait for the day when I can shoot with a high resolution camera at lower resolutions through pixel binning. That would be wonderful!
Could not agree more on this one. Pixel binning will take high resolution cameras to a whole new galaxy! (I hope Nikon guys are reading it)
Looks like a great camera. Thanks for all the information Nasim. I think time to upgrade from the D750 and start saving.
If you shoot landscapes, it would be worth moving up in features and resolution (only if you need more though). But for everyday shooting, the D750 is still a wonderful camera.
My new interest is sports/wildlife photography and I’ve been thinking about D500 (I’ve been using D750 for 3 years mainly on landscape, street/events photography). Perhaps I shouldn’t buy D500 but instead sell my D750 and buy D850, which is better than the combination (D750+D500)???
I have had that combo for 2 years. Both are great cameras. But you might need some DX-lenses aswell. lThe D850 seems like a combo of the two and then some. However, the downside is only one house. For sports, you often don’t have time to change lenses.
The D750 is a camera I’d stick to if it had a larger buffer. For everything but sports I love it. I liked the D500, and a big plus is greater coverage of AF-points. Still, I rarely used it and I have now sold it. Can get a great deal on a D850 if I trade in my D750. That is my plan now. I also have m43 for travel.
Looks like the D850 covers all the things we were longing for with the D810. The D810 is a very capable body but it missed features that its lower sibliings had, like bluetooth and a tilting screen fi. Not critical compared to the massive resolution power of the D810, but functionalities that could make working with the D810 more practical. Putting shots from a concert online on the spot, fi or exploring extreme camera positions. At last, Nikon stops making irrelevant trade-offs between ‘consumer’ and pro grade bodies with the D850. I also missed, more then I liked, low light concert shots because the D810’s AF could not cope with it anymore. I expect a positive shift in the threshold level of the D850. As far as I’m concerned, Nikon developed an incredible successor to the already very capable D810, filling the gaps in functionalities, while upgrading significantly its photographic capabilities. I’m really impressed and I look forward working with it for the years to come.
Frank, I fully agree with you. In regards to focusing, while I am still writing the AF sections of the review, I can say that the D850 is far better compared to the D810 in low light focusing capabilities, so shooting concerts in very dim environments is no longer as big of an issue. That -4 EV light sensitivity alone makes a huge difference compared to -2 EV on the D810.
I like the images I’m seeing posted on line for this d850 dslr looks like a clear winner. I love my d810 for portrait and landscape photography but it does suffer a bit for wildlife shooting. The improved focus capabilities and frames per second would be great to have. I’m thinking my wife needs her first camera really soon,.Lol.
I’ve found 6 rolls of undeveloped film. It would be awesome to to view and develop them with a camera vs sending them off.
When is the AF test expected to be available?
I was planning on buying the D850. I’m a wildlife photographer, mainly birds and macro creatures.
I was very disappointed seeing a test a few days back where the D850 had a lot of trouble focusing on a human filling the frame running towards the camera and even other “simpler” situations.
If that test is correct then the D850 will not be doing so great in AF on birds, especially not with busy backgrounds.
I really hope that test was wrong, otherwise I might just not buy me that D850. I can’t afford a new camera more than every third generation. Would mean I would have to wait a few more years to see what comes up.
I recently received a replacement for my d850 because it would not focus on birds coming towards me. I was perfectly on the eye and it was very unreliable.
I will get a chance to try out my new camera in the near future.
I do have the new D850 body for only about 2 weeks now, but I can already confirm that ALL (great) expectations are fulfilled…. I shot a nightscape last week and was most of all surprised by the very noticable gain in resolution at 64ASA full RAW. The D810 was already impressive, but the D850 plays in another league. I don’t have experience with digital MF cameras like Fuji GFX50 etc, but I assume that the D850 will be very close. Dynamic range seems rather similar to the D810. Last weekend, I had a portrait shoot, as well as concert photography. The portait shoot was done with available dim natural light. And for the first time I really love the skin tones that a Nikon body provides. Very natural and loads of nuance. I’m not into to portraits really, but it seems to me that Canon has a real contender in this field for the first time in years. Also for concert photography, the D850 proved to be a more versatile and competent compagnon then the D810. I did not miss 1 shot! That may sound obvious, but it isn’t obvious at all. Countless are the shots that I missed with the D810, because the AF couldn’t cope with it with its limited -2EV sensitivity in very dim light. And I’m also comfortable with shooting till 12.800 ASA. There is of course noticable noise. But nothing that can be dealt with in post-processing. In my opinion, the reduction in the dynamic range is more noticable. But again, very acceptable. So I win an extra full stop, which is really incredible. On top of that, I made actively use of its wifi/bluetooth capability to stream the photos to my smartphone and post them online on the fly. Without any processing upfront. The jpeg’s are that good now. Again a plus over the D810. The only issue that I encountered till now was visible lining in the photos, shot in Liveview during the concert. I have to dig into this in order to find out the root cause. All suggestions are welcome, of course. Next concert, I will definetely give the mRAW and sRAW formats a try. I’m very curious to see if this has a positive impact on noise levels at high ISO’s. In short: this is clearly a NEW camera design, not just an evolution on the D810, and it is very capable and polyvalent. It gives my photography a new boost in all respects. And technically but also in sheer fun… : )
The manual says EFCS works not only in Mup shutter release mode but also the Q modes, making hand-held EFCS something like the experience on Canon or Sony. I don’t think I’m mistaken about this.
Steve, I will test this and if it turns out to be true, will update the review. I would love to see EFCS work properly in every mode!
Nasim, please keep posted your findings about iso noise handling of mRaw and sRaw files ..will be a life saver for a wedding photographer for sure..
I absolutely will – much more mRAW and sRAW testing will be done, hopefully later tonight.
I have been waiting for someone to take a more in depth look at the focus stacking feature. Thank you very much for that.
I had been hoping as well that one would be able to pick starting & end points for a stack. This would save room eliminating all the captures past that point. I’ve never tried to find out if it is possible on my D750, but is it possible to erase a block of unwanted shots on the D850 thereby saving space on the card?
I have also found Zerene very forgiving of misaligned shots in the stack. This has allowed some nice results with some 8-10 shot handheld macro stacks in the field.
From what I know, there is no way to select a number of images to be deleted, especially filtering them by date or a range of time. This is something that would be nice to have on all cameras!
First of all, thanks for this article analysing the smaller RAW files. I’d assumed that these were as pointless as on the D810, but this looks promising.
I am confused about the following extract, can you clarify please?
‘Once again, it is very clear that the sRAW format is a bad choice on the D850 – highlight recovery is very poor when compared to the full size RAW file.
Now, let’s see how the Nikon D850 does in comparison. First, let’s take a look at the same +4 EV shadow recovery with full-size RAW, mRAW and sRAW formats:’
You have just shown the effect of processing the D810 file, then say that …SRAW…IS A BAD CHOICE ON THE D850..
Why the D850? I thought you were talking about the D810 there,
Stephen, I apologize for that – it was a typo that has already been fixed. I meant to say D810 there :)
Many thanks for doing this work Nasim: it’s one of the main things I wanted to know about this camera. Thanks also for responding. It makes sense now!
I’m really pleased that the mRAW is effectively a ‘true’ 12 bit RAW. To me, it makes the D850 more versatile. I would probably use 25MP for handheld & 45MP for tripod (that’s for mountain hiking & landscapes).
I too was hopeful the split screen would be top & bottom for depth of field checking (initial statements talked of ‘improvement’). It didn’t occur to me that it would be useable like this with the camera in vertical orientation until I read your article.
I have realized that the tilting screen is useful for HORIZONTAL shots & the split screen useful for VERTICAL shots (DoF checking) but not vice versa! It’ll probably never be possible to have everything in a camera though.
Stephen, if we push manufacturers enough, everything is possible! We just need to keep asking and pushing for those innovations. There is no reason why Nikon cannot fix the split screen so that it works on each side independently. It is an addressable firmware issue, but if nobody ever talks about it, we will continue to have this half broken feature on every future Nikon camera. That’s why mirrorless innovations are so great and so important – they are making Nikon and Canon move their rear ends and implement new features. For example, focus stacking would have never made it to a Nikon DSLR if it was not a popular feature on mirrorless cameras.
I agree Nasim, competition is a driver of innovation. I’m not optimistic about Nikon giving us the split screen feature we want with a firmware update, given their history in this area. We’d probably have to wait for a D900! It’s a shame though. Seems to me every camera manufacturer adds (or leaves out) a ‘feature(s)’ & the reason appears to us inexplicable. The D810’s implementation of EFCS was a good example. I can think of others as I’m sure so can everyone else!
Thanks again for doing this & all your other reviews. They are very helpful.
I heard that the engineers decided to put in focus stacking without talking to the marketing folks at
Nikon. There may a few dreamers left in the company.
Hi Nasim
First of all, thank you for this first deeper look into some of the new features.
I’ve had the chance to play around with a D850 and some Zeiss lenses.
I must say that even though this camera looks like a winner, I’m just really pissed of by Nikon right now!
I shoot a D5/D500 Combo with mostly my 600/F4E for Wildlife and the D850 looks amazing for this kind of photography!
But….
One of the most important things to me is not only fast but reliable AF tracking and the d9 and GRP HL AF modes provide exactly what I need.
Know I don’t know if you’ve had the chance to try out GRP HL on the D5, since it’s very new, but both of the mentioned AF modes I really miss on the D500 and even though the d9 made it into the D850 they skimmed the much more important GRP HL mode.
I’m feeling like Nikon is doing everything they can, including castrating new camera bodies of software features that were allready made for the existing hardware, so that the D5 keeps selling.
I hope you consider mentioning this in you review, because Nikon has to braught to reason and I suspect that some Nikon officials might be watching you very closely.
Best regards and keep up the good work
Andrew
Andrew, I believe the Group-Area AF HL and VL feature was introduced via a firmware update on the Nikon D5, so it was not there in the initial release. Sad that Nikon decided to skip on that new feature with the D850 – will need to update the review with that info, thanks for reminding!
Excellent discovery on the pliability of the mRAW and sRAW options, I was certainly hoping that would be the case. One thing I don’t understand though is why are they incorrectly reporting the MP size of each:
mRAW 25MP vs actual 33MP
sRAW 11MP vs actual 25MP
I’ve played with both options in C1 and the files do seem excellent.
Thanks,
Gavin
Gavin, the actual file size when you use software like Lightroom (after NEF To DNG conversion) matches Nikon’s advertised size, but the real data within the files is very different, as highlighted in the article and discovered by Iliah Borg. Nikon is forcing post-processing software to downsample from 33 MP to 24 MP and from 25 MP to 11 MP…
I’m using C1 and seeing mRAW as 7072×4712 and sRAW as 6184×4120 – not sure I follow…
That’s interesting – it means that C1 is not processing the mRAW files correctly. If you convert with Adobe’s DNG converter or use Nikon’s native RAW converters, you will see that the resolution numbers will look exactly as on the Nikon’s specs.
That seems to be the case. Capture One is giving me RAW files as I mentioned above, I took three identical shots at full RAW, mRAW and sRAW. They all seemed to adjust perfectly fine and I exported them as jpg’s at the same resolution. The files were sharp and enabled full adjustment as per the primary RAW.
Nasim I usually enjoy your reviews, but this is more like a specsheet for the most part. Also it’s lacking in actual pictures, you are usually much more illustrative. I see you’ve wrote you’ll be adding to this rather than piece mealing it to us in various articles; might I suggest you wait until you have the actual full review for us to read from front to back. The pressure to get a review out when you clearly aren’t finished reviewing strikes me as clickbait, and updating it and having us trawl through it again even with it bumped to the top of your news feed doesn’t sound that appealing.
Steve
Steve, I fully understand your frustration, but the reason why I decided to do this is in order to consolidate all the articles together in one piece. I did not want to post bits and pieces here and there to end up with 10 different articles, and I also did not want to wait on posting on findings like mRAW and sRAW, because our readers were asking for that information. As for sample images, I have a bunch of images that I am working on processing, so hopefully within the next day or two the review will have them. Plus, I will be posting a bunch more images as I travel to the mountains of Colorado, then Jordan and Turkey. All this will happen over the period of next 3-4 weeks. If I waited until the review is fully complete, it would take at least two months to complete. At this point, the review is already at 13 thousand words and it will only keep on growing. But the value is in the research that has already been done and some specific features that might be interesting to look at. I don’t have any pressure to get a review out and I am certainly not doing it for the clicks – just want to provide as much info as I can, as soon as I can, because others have been asking for it. In fact, you don’t have to look at the whole review – you can just see the first page where I will be posting the update history.
Hope this explains why I am doing it this way.
Even as an the inaugural release, this review covers ground missed in all others I’ve read. Especially informative with respect to the intricacies of the RAW files and their IQ, and equally the Focus-Stacking.
Yours strategy of iterative updates of a single review is sound, and reduces yet more web articles to click on. Bookmarked and I look forward to careful reading over the next few weeks
Thank You
Thank you for your feedback, I really appreciate it!
AF same as D5
Viewfinder best ever
Full magnesium body
Real 7fps
Massive battery life
Excellent ergonomics
4k full-frame
Grip gives 9fps, 5,000 shots
This is the real D700 replacement, with 3.75x the resolution.
Game Over
(at least for a couple of years)
I agree, but there is one important piece to keep in mind with the grip – it diminishes the buffer greatly when using the D5 battery. I will post this info under the AF section, but it is important. While on one hand, you are gaining 2 fps, you are also losing out on how long you can shoot. This is expected, since gaining in fps also puts a bigger burden on the buffer.
Thanks Nasim,
I’m sure that’s the case, but I’ve never run-off more than 20 shots in a burst in 10 years of digital sports photography, and I find the D500 and D5 buffers are fully replenished after about 3 seconds, so expect the D850 will be the same.
Anyone firing off buffer filling amounts of pictures from this beast, better have a serious storage arrangements! Myself, despite the superb handling etc, I can’t justify £3500 on a new body, only to use it in the small JPEG modes!
Agree, same thoughts here.
After D700 I had to struggle deciding which camera to choose. First it was D600 which was an excellent camera overall but its AF was definitely bad, especially in dim light and it lost all the side benefits of a pro camera body, then there were D610 (useless to upgrade) D810 and D750 which had both some good and some things I didn’t like.. then D5 (too expensive) then D500 ( I went temporarily for it for its AF alone but the truth is that as much as I like portraiture I lost the FF factor and the big af points are for sure a plus when on a sport event but a bit less when you need to pinpoint an eye with your mf lenses) – anyway really I think this will be my last camera ever. All what I need (the only thing I feel missing is GPS but I can live with that), a super exciting viewfinder (when people will realize how much better is a large/huge viewfinder for shooting??? also a big part of enjoyment comes from here) durable and flexible body, excellent performances, truly everything checked ! I can only imagine to take it back with me next time I go to Central Asia and Russia and enjoy taking photographs of people and living environments !
Solmeta GMax is superb 3-rd party Geotagger which I use with Nikon D810. It is very well designed and reliable product. Pos’n aquisition is very fast, implementing both GLONASS and GPS for high accuracy and reliability. If U miss GPS feature in your camera U cant go wrong with Solmeta. It is a bit pricy though but U get what U pay for..
I think it is more useful if you would complete your evaluation and then upload it when it is done than one step at a time.
Just my $0.02
Guido
Guido, please see my reply number 14.1 to Steve above. I did it primarily because our readers were asking for information on specific features like mRAW and sRAW and I did not want to post many articles addressing the different features. This is the first time I am trying out this new format, so if it doesn’t work out, I won’t do it going forward. So far, it looks like readers are finding value in the presented research, such as mRAW / sRAW file format differences between the D850 and the D810.
Nasim, great review, but you referred to the D850 several times as D810. I caught 3 instances.
SSM, I apologize for that – it looks like after I proof-read the article, I forgot to flush the cache. Please refresh – those typos should be taken care of now.
FWIW Affinity Photo does focus stacking, and it is only $50.00. It does a great deal more and I am enjoying not have to subscribe to Adobe to get the functionality! Check it out!
vimeo.com/192632707
Chuck, we have tried Affinity Photo with Spencer and I can confirm that its focus stacking is indeed very good – much better than what Adobe Photoshop can do!
great review – thanks a lot!!!!
Robert, we will be posting a lot more information in the coming days. Thank you for your feedback!
Nasim,
You mention that the D850 now comes with a more efficient EN-EL15a battery that extends the battery life of the camera to 1,840 shots, compared to 1,200 for the D810. The increase in the number of shots was also attributed elsewhere to the EXPEED 5 processor being more power efficient compared to the EXPEED 4 of the D810.
However, I believe the biggest factor is the fact that the D850 dropped the flash, and CIPA ratings are based on the use of the flash for 50% of the shots, if the camera has a built-in flash such as the D810.
SSM
SSM, you are right, dropping the flash certainly did increase the CIPA numbers, because they rely on a certain percentage of shots taken with the flash unit. However, EXPEED 5 and XQD are certainly a big deal – the faster it takes to copy images from the buffer to the memory card, the more battery life is preserved. I would say the latter two are bigger factors than flash alone. Also, the newer EN-EL15a is certainly more efficient than the older EN-EL15. I notice differences in battery life between the two when used on the D850.
Dear Nasim. That I doubt, the faster it takes to copy images from the buffer to the memory card the more battery life is preserved. Why should this be? To switch a bit from 0 to 1 or vice versa needs the same amount of energy regardless of the time being consumed. I think energy consumption increases proportionally to the amount of data transferred. It is rather the more modern XQD design which will reduce the amount of energy being used and not the higher rate of the data transfer. My guess is also that the energy used to write the data to the card is one of the minor factors compared to the overall process. Do you have any evidence to back up your assertion?
I liked your review of the D850 and I am exited to read more. Thank you very much for your great work.
Mr. Mansurov, in page 2, number 7 you write “With the Nikon D810, one has to be in Mirror Lock Up mode + Self-Timer when shooting without a shutter release cable in order to eliminate shake”. How is this possible, since you use only one at a time? Thank you.
Dinos, I apologize for that typo. I fixed those issues last night, but forgot to flush the cache. I meant to say Mirror Up + Exposure Delay, not self-timer. I flushed the cache and that info should be there now.
I’ve had the camera for a short period of time and absolutely love it so far. There are a few things that give me pause and that’s primarily the XQD card and card reader availability. Will Micron, who bought Lexar, continue to produce XQD? Sony is the sole player right now. If they were ruthless and wanted to stick it to Nikon then simply switch to a different media format such as CFast or CExpress. I can only count three hardware products that currently use XQD. Your analysis about mRAW is music to my ears as an event shooter. I for one would like to see an mRAW + RAW record option. I would use the mRAW in post production as my primary (for a multitude of computer hardware reasons) and then only use the 14 bi RAW if I wanted to achieve more than what the mRAW could provide (extreme dynamic range and the like). Then after the shoot or job was complete I could….wait for it….discard the 14 Bit raw. Would love to hear your thoughts.
Three hardware ‘Sony’ products I meant to write for clarification. Sony has the proprietary trademark for XQD and yet they don’t implement this tech into their own cameras. This does not show commitment on their part to this tech. Betamax vs. VHS all over again.
Sony made a big mistake by not putting an XQD card slot in the A9.
Stephen, XQD is gaining traction for sure – I don’t see it disappearing any time soon. Micron no longer owns Lexar – it sold the whole division to a Chinese company and they are going to continue to manufacture cards under the Lexar brand. So I believe we should see more XQD cards from Lexar in the future. Other formats are either already dead, or won’t survive in the long run – XQD is the best form factor and it is here to stay.
As for mRAW, it is indeed a great option to have, now that Nikon has finally fixed it to be a true 12-bit image. I will be testing other parts of the mRAW / sRAW formats later tonight / tomorrow and will try to post my findings as soon as possible.
Hi Nasim
This is off topic but regards Lexar. Do you know if the Chinese company is going to continue making their Workflow card readers? I love these things. I actually purchased an extra so I would have one when the one I have expires (not expecting that for a long time but you never know) I would love to have a higher capacity SSD for it as well. Crossing my fingers…
I am a D800/D810 shooter who now has now had a total of about three hours time to work with a borrowed D850 (I don’t own one at this point.) Everything in my limited experience with the camera has been completely consistent with your far more in-depth and thorough review. The early indications are that this is a great camera and a definite step up from the D810 in many respects. I will almost surely buy a D850 at some point, but I have decided to defer my purchase to later production runs of the camera because Nikon’s unfortunate and consistent history with significant defects and recalls in early release cycles. I ordered both the D800 and the D810 before they were even announced and received the cameras within the first week or so after they were distributed for sale. In both cases, my cameras were the subject of recalls and I was without them for a while. I’m certainly well aware of the similar situations with the D600, D750 and others. Nikon does so many things so well with their engineering. I don’t understand why they are seemingly unable to correct their obvious testing and quality control issues. I suspect, but don’t know, that part of the problem may be they are unwilling to allow enough rigorous outside testing of their new cameras before they are released. Does that sound right? Or, am I off-base. As I said, I don’t know. Thanks for a great review. John
John, Nikon has definitely had an unfortunate run with a bunch of recalls and problematic releases. I hope by now they have learned their lessons and based on the past couple of releases, we have not seen any major issues (D5, D500, D7500, etc). So far, I cannot find any serious flaws with the D850, but more field testing is required and I do not want to jump to conclusions. Your methodology of waiting for sometime after a product is released is a very smart choice – that’s what everyone should be doing to avoid potential frustration.
Thanks for the reply. I am somewhat torn between logic and emotion on the issue of how soon to buy. On the one hand, I am convinced – and you seem to agree – that it makes the most sense to wait a while to let any potential quality control issues to show up. And, I will probably stick to that. On the other hand, having now shot with a D850 for a while, the kid in me would love to have one as soon as possible. The camera is a real joy to shoot with – it’s faster all around, the grip is easier to hold and the big view finder is gorgeous. Having now done a few hours of pixel peeping on the shots I took, I’m also convinced that the images are also at least a small improvement over the D810’s in almost every category. However, the differences are so minor that I don’t think they are readily noticeable unless you are printing very large (maybe 24×36 and up.) Best, John
I was going to do that but just couldn’t wait :-) I will get mine in the next lot to arrive in Australia. Thanks for the excellent review. It benefits from being written by practical and independent photographers. Much better than the typical specification regurgitation and image measurement reports or those by reviewers who seem too cosy with Nikon.
One question; have you dusted the sensor yet and used your excellent gel stick product on it? If so, any issues with using that product on the D850?
Have you verified that the D850 doesn’t have the same autofocus bug as the D5 and D500? The bug is Dynamic-Area AF d25, d72, d153 all act like single-point AF. Still no mention from Nikon on this bug.
Ed, could you please provide more details on this bug, because I haven’t heard of it. If you are referring to AF point staying in the same spot when taking pictures in d25, d72 and d153, that’s very normal – AF does not move around visibly in the viewfinder unless you are in Auto or 3D modes. However, this does not mean that the camera is not tracking, those active AF points certainly track subjects as they move. This is how the previous generation AF system worked on other cameras as well.
Very valuable review, many thanks dear Nasim :))
You are most welcome Vladimir :) Working on posting some more pictures tonight!
Hi Nasim, any news for Lightroom CC performance at these large files of the D850? Will there be a review/advice for wedding photographers as well?
Thanks,
Jan
Jan, so far, I don’t see a drastic difference in loading times between the D810 and the D850. There is a slight overhead as expected, but not a huge slowdown as say between the D810 and the D700. And yes, I will be providing some feedback for shooting portraits with the D850 – just came back from a photo shoot with two models and hoping to post some pictures tonight / tomorrow.
Nasim,
Could you comment in your review on the usability of the D850 for both landscape/portraiture and action/sports/wildlife. Seems to me this is one of main advantages of the D580 – high res, excellent dynamic range, low noise with a higher frame rate, larger buffer, much better AF system. In particular, using the DX mode on the D850 would make it comparable if not better than using the D500. I was using the D810 and was considering ordering the D500 for action until the D850 became available. I have the D850 on backorder.
Michael, yes, we will try to cover that as much as possible. In the next few weeks I will be mostly concentrating on landscapes, travel and portraiture, but I will definitely cover action as well – hoping that others in the team can help out with that, we’ll have to see :)
Based on what I see so far, I would say the D850 can serve as a dual purpose camera – to shoot high-res images, as well as fast action. It is not 10 fps, but still pretty darn close.
Thank you, Nasim, for this much-anticipated review! As a hobbyist photographer, would you recommend the jump from the Nikon D750 to the D850? Why or why not?
Janelle, for a hobbyist who does not need massive resolution or the improved AF, absolutely not! The D750 is still a phenomenal camera, so unless you have very specific needs the D850 addresses and have the budget for it, I would not recommend to upgrade.
I thought that EFCS can be used also in the Q shooting modes as well as MUP. From the D850 manual below.
d6 Electronic front-curtain shutter
Enable or disable the electronic front-curtain shutter in Q, QC, or MUP mode, eliminating blur caused by shutter motion. A mechanical shutter is used in other release modes, regardless of the option selected.
Can you test this function? It seems like they have addressed the D810 limitations of EFCS
John, should have read the manual! You are absolutely correct. Just tested EFCS and indeed, it works in Q and Qc modes as well as Mirror Up. Strange that they put that in those modes and not in Single mode as well, but hey, that’s a great option to have still without having to resort to Silent Live View capture! I have updated the review to reflect this, thank you for pointing it out! That’s why our readers are the best!
No problem how does this work did you try it? I suspect thats why they added the shorter shutter release delay of .2 and .5 seconds to work with this, just my guess
and the good news is :
even the normal shutter does not cause any motion blur…
(please let me know if you have other experiences…)
Thank you for a detailed review and analysis of the D850. You thorough review so far has convinced me that the D850 is the way to go for me.
Kapurar, glad that you’ve enjoyed the review. A lot more info will be coming soon!
This is a useful review. I have seen comments about buffer capacity. I am looking forward to seeing your comments on that.
Jeff
Jeff, I will publish the info when I get to the AF section of the review. For now, the concentration is studio tests and mRAW / sRAW.
PS. Mine arrives next Thursday. Looking forward to trying it with also new 58, 105E and 400E.
Jeff, shot with the D850 + 58 f/1.4 today. Beautiful combo!
I am interested in your comment that “Anything past f/8 on a high resolution sensor negatively impacts image quality”. Can you explain this for me. Great article on the D850 and enjoy reading all your articles.
John, yes, that’s the effect of diffraction.
Hi Nasim,
Great write-up and I’m looking forward to more! I have used Nikon products since 1968 and have a question about their glass being able to make best use of all those MP’s, especially out there in the corners. I’ve checked DxO and several other places and have not found a highly rated lens in the 50mm range made by Nikon. Am I missing something? I always shoot raw and print in the 30×40 in. range. Your advice would be appreciated. TIA.
Del, to get the best out of the D850, you should use modern glass that’s optimized for flat digital sensors. Most “G” and “E” type lenses should work great for that. Unfortunately, older lenses won’t do well in corner performance, which is important for shooting landscapes. Also, DxO is a bad place to check for lens info, because they only check a single lens sample and they focus in the center of the lens for measuring performance.
Thanks for detailed review of D850 Nasim.
I’m planning to sell my D800E after I receive my D850 from B&H (still on backorder).
Anvar, you are most welcome! That’s a huge upgrade from the D800E in every way, but you will especially love all the live view and vibration-free shooting using EFCS.
Yay, Verm’s back! I hope to get some of this thoughts on the D850 for wildlife that’s, you know, able to move and maybe feathered or furred. He’s fun.
Nasim, thank you for the work with the smaller RAWs, clearly there’s a lot of interest, just look at the fraction of comments here referring to it!
I would like to know more about your experience with focus peaking. I know it sounds good in theory but man it’s been hit and miss on my a6000 or a6300, even with MF glass (I’ve given up on focus by wire for MF, it’s just infuriating).
I had this pre-ordered but good sense got the better of me – I simply can’t afford it right now. But once the fun money pot is built back up, I’m planning on getting it. I’m glad I haven’t bought a DX body – this will replace the D750 and any DX I’d get easily.
Sean, Verm is fun for sure and we always welcome his articles at PL, since they are both educational and funny.
As for focus peaking, it works pretty well on the D850 and the nice high-res screen definitely helps with all those tiny colorful pixels. However, you can only do this in live view mode, since the D850 doesn’t have an electronic viewfinder like your A6000 / A6300.
I know it’s only in live view, but hey, it’s a start (man I wish this thing had a hybrid VF). Seems to me being able to rack focus with good focus peaking would help me with Spencer’s recent post about hyperfocal distance, rather than relying on CDAF and picking JUST THE RIGHT SPOT for the CDAF to work on.
For those of us that must purchase lenses. Will you be suggesting lenses that are suitable for this camera and don’t reduce its performance?
Bruce, yes, I am planning to write a section on recommended glass for the D850.
Interesting. Seems to me anything but exotic primes (including the Otus family, maybe the Milvus too, and some of Nikon’s most expensive glass) won’t be able to resolve every one of the 45 MP. But does that matter? Particularly if mRAW and sRAW are as useful as early indications suggest, seems to me that my 24-85 VR or 50 f/1.8 or Tamron 150-600 G2 would work just fine and resolve more detail than on my D750, I just won’t be able to pixel peep THAT much (but I don’t anyway).
Nasim good morning
A few more questions
1) of course focus stacking is done with AF lenses only (not with MF because it’s you who have to focus them and the camera can’t advance them by itself)
2) in case of mf lenses (Zeiss), I got it right when you said that focus peaking is available only in MF mode ? this could be great.
3) silent shutter: are you limited to tap the touchscreen to shoot or (with a minor disadvantage, yet probably useful if you want to try keeping the camera handheld instead than on a tripod) you can trigger the shutter with the standard button on top right ?
4) mRaw and sRaw.. please cover them as much as you can, also in term of overall image sharpness vs standard 14 bit lossless (I didn’t follow you when you said they lost detail in comparison; of course a smaller image has less detail but you seemed meaning something else, or perhaps I misunderstood you here)
5) Snapbridge.. with my D500 I did all the updates and had never a problem, only with the very first versions the camera and the smartphone got disconnected and didn’t pair again easily, yet it has been ironed out since a long time, so unless you’re questioning for the time to transfer an image from the camera to the phone when in full res, I’ve got used to that and people are in awe when you can send them a small preview in a matter of seconds from when you take it.
Thanks again in advance !
You mention you were watching the images flash on the monitor during a focus stack. How do you do that? I can only watch the progress through the viewfinder – the monitor stays blank.
Also regarding stacking – you can take a stack of say 10 shots – evaluate the depth and continue with more as long as you don’t refocus. A work-around when, as you mention, the design should have permitted choosing an endpoint for the stack.
Thanks for your most excellent work!
Dino, yes, focus peaking is only available in MF mode, so it will work great with your Zeiss lenses. With AF lenses, you just need to switch to MF mode to enable it. You can trigger silent shutter with the shutter release, touchscreen or a remote. If you touch the camera and you are worried about camera shake, you can enable Exposure Delay mode and it will kill the vibrations. I will be covering mRAW and sRAW more – just need a bit time to do all the studio shoots. As for detail, I meant to say that the smaller RAW images lack detail when compared to full size RAW. Lastly, Snapbridge issues are still there according to Aaron Priest, especially when using Android devices.
Regarding SnapBridge, I struggled again for several minutes in front of a live audience last night trying to get it to work with my iPad (not even Android!) when I had tested it fine in advance an hour before. I tried my iPhone as a backup and that wouldn’t immediately connect either. I had to “forget” the connection in both camera and iPad and start all over to get it to work, and then after the presentation during Q&A I couldn’t get it to connect to the iPad again either. So it definitely has some issues and I need to do some more testing to find out what conditions are preventing it from working well. None of my previous cameras have SnapBridge, so I can’t compare to say the D500.
Well, for the past half hour I’ve been easily switching between my iPhone, iPad, and Android. The Android definitely requires a few more hoops to work right. iOS is easy. The trick is to open SnapBridge, go to the Camera icon on the bottom (top on Android), you’ll see your paired camera but there will be no Bluetooth icon on it yet, click Download selected pictures and immediately go to Bluetooth in the D850 menu, click paired devices, choose your device (assuming you’ve already done this at least once initially of course), click OK select at the bottom, and then your iOS device should show that bluetooth connection on paired cameras and ask you to switch to wifi. Click yes, then Go, then find your wifi in iOS Settings and connect to the D850. At that point you are connected to the D850 via Wifi and can use other apps like qDslrDashboard.
Android requires a few more hoops. It works best to completely disable WiFi before you even open SnapBridge or start your Bluetooth connection. When it tries to make the WiFi connection, keep disabling WiFi. At some point SnapBridge will tell you it failed to open a WiFi connection, but it has finally enabled it on the camera. Then you can turn on WiFi on the Android and connect to the D850 in the list. If you let SnapBridge try to connect automatically via WiFi, it never creates this D850 entry. It takes some trial and error to get the steps down right, but at least it’s consistent about it.
Many thanks, looking forward to it !
Hi Nasim
I know that this review is still being updated. Like to know if the D850 in DX mode will be able to replicate the D500 … in terms of AF acquisition and tracking. Apart from 7fps vs 10fps which is fine with me, would appreciate your opinion on a D850 vs D500 comparison …
Thank you and regards
Bijan, it is better than the D500 in AF acquisition and tracking in my opinion for one major reason – when DX mode is enabled, you still see the area around it, which means that you can anticipate the subject getting into the frame and capture it better.
I agree with Nasim’s point vis a vis subject acquisition. However the DX view in the D850 looks absolutely puny compared to viewing through the D500 viewfinder. If you consistently shoot in DX mode the D500 IMO is easier on the eyes.
Thanks for the detailed review, Nasim.
But the EFCS works in not only Mup mode but also Q and Qc.
Daisuke, thank you for your feedback. I have already updated the article with this info. I am still puzzled as to why Nikon cannot enable EFCS with self timer and other release modes!
Nice review Nasim .. waiting for your finding on
” 17) mRAW / sRAW High ISO Noise Performance To be posted soon. Check back tomorrow! ” certainly life saver for wedding photographers for sure…
Bhushan, I am working on this tonight and will try to post the info by tomorrow!
Typo here..
“Once again, it is very clear that the sRAW format is a bad choice on the D850 – highlight recovery is very poor when compared to the full size RAW file.”
Should be D810, I think.
Steve, somehow you are looking at a very old version of the article – please refresh, since that was fixed a few hours after the review went live.
One of the best reviews I have read concerning the D850. Well done Nasim
Thank you Tony, we will be publishing a lot more info in the coming weeks!
Very well written Nasim!
I would love to read about a few comparisons.
D850 Vs D5 in low light, high ISO situations.
D850 Vs D500 in wildlife/ sport photography.
I own a D500 and had rented a D5 (a D4s for previous trip to Zimbabwe) for my recent trip to Botswana.
Lenses that I was using were my 500 f/4 and a 70-200 f2.8 both newer FL versions.
By the end of the trip, I ended up using my D500 more than D5. One of the best autofocus modules and the fact that focus points go right upto the edge of the viewfinder. Barring very low light situations, I did not see any advantage of D5 over D500.
For landscapes and astro, I wanted a full frame body which would also be useful in wildlife (which I primarily shoot). Looks like D850 is the answer!
Lets see if you come across any issues (From previous experience of D800 and D600 fiasco, its best to wait for 6 months or more before actually making the decision)
Thank you again!
Your website is the most trusted review site in my opinion.
cheers
Vikram
Nasim thank you for this review- a lot to like.
But what is missing for me:
An easy and fast to use wireless capture method.
I understand now i still have to use my external Hahnel receiver on top of the camera.
.. why not make a good wifi receiver option built in the camera that works without a telephone and bad software.
A better implementation of splitview- i see things have not changed much. And i think it is very useful.
I have to say that I’m blown away by how comprehensive your review is, and this is just still a preliminary one! This is why I come back to your website again and again. This takes hard work and an attention to detail. Good job and thank you! Can’t wait to see the rest of your tests.
Nasim,
Thanks for the detailed sRAW, mRAW info! This is the first place I’ve seen detailed and useable information on it (I had emailed you about it before). Indeed, your samples make it look like the files are very usable! Having the option to change modes on the fly is huge. I think many people like me are in the same boat: I want 45MP for landscape photos but I don’t want it for walkabout / family / event etc… where 12bit is fine as long as I can still work with it in RAW. To boot, we have the option of using DX mode for sports / wildlife as needed (again without the full 46MP but at 20MP with full frame DoF instead of DX DoF)? Wow – it really is 3 cameras in one.
I see most articles and comments regard the d850 as the successor to the d810. However, in my opinion, it’s really the long awaited successor to the d700 that the d750 wasn’t (apart from the price). No other Nikon camera since the 700 has been that versatile compared to its peers. Not to mention the pro body and the high frame rate. :)
I wholeheartedly agree! The D850 is like the offspring of my D700 and D810, LOL!
Thanks for the review Nasim!
The focus stacking is a feature I am excited about despite I am not a big macro shooter but for model shooting.
I am adamant about getting the iris in focus and with this feature I hope to have a choice of the best shot.
The fn2 button also really excites me – in contrast to your judgement – it would be a huge point to me.
Canon has a feature to rate pictures in preview which I did not find on my D810.
When shooting people I usually preview and see already shots that stand out, which I really would love to flag.
This would make it easier after a day of shooting with almost a thousand photos to find quickly the good ones for a start.
Looking forward to the next chapter.
Best regards Bernd
I’m curious, what excites you about the Fn2 button? Do you use star ratings a lot in camera?
I should expand my question…. do the in-camera star ratings transfer to Lightroom or other editors, or only the manufacturer’s editing software? I have not tried it yet.
boy am I glad I did not seem all of my Nikon gear. this camera is incredible. Best images I have ever seen on digital. they look like film. Fantastic. This is the best Nikon Ever.
Hi Nasim, how much different in picture quality and sharpness when you compare D850 to D5? Price of D5 is D850 * 2
Thanks for the initial review Nasim!
My 2 cents: when the D810 launched in 2014, it earned quite a bit of praise—deservedly so. Then the D750 came out 4 months later and became perhaps Nikon’s most successful camera—deservedly so. Today, we have the D850 and it’s also beginning to generate a lot of positive buzz. I’m waiting for the other shoe to drop… :)
I remember this, too, and I’m actually glad I bought the D750 instead. Waiting for the D760 =)
I’m also still happy with my D750 purchase. But it would be very compelling to see a D760(?) with a tweaked 36MP sensor along with touch screen LCD, illuminated back buttons, a quieter shutter(leaf?), GPS (!) and keep the flash! 36MP is more than enough and much more forgiving than 46-50MP and maybe help keep the cost to $2195. Those few enhancements might encourage quite a number of D750 to upgrade and maximize the DSLR platform.
I appreciate all the work you put into these reviews. Will you be posting evaluations of high-ISO performance? I’m skeptical that the 850 is much better than the 810 or 750 in this regard. I’m also interested to see how it compares to the D500.
I’m planning to get D850. But didn’t get a review regarding the lens. I like portrait photography. Didn’t want to stuck with Nikon 85mm f/1.4G. Which will be a better choice keeping in mind of portrait plus activities. AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8E ED VR lens or the 16-80mm f/2.8-4E.
Matt
I am doing quite a bit of people photography, check my site.
Neither of the zoom lenses will render a bokeh as pleasing compared to a prime even at same aperture.
If you want to do serious portrait work you cannot bypass primes mainly one around 50mm.
But if you want to use a zoom then take the 24-70 which simple offers 2,8 at 70mm because the 16-80 has f4 at the long end and that is a whole lot of difference.
D850 Focus Shift Testing:
Hi Nasim,
Great D850 review – great camera.
I have alerted N.P.U in the UK of a D850 glitch I have found but not had confirmed by them yet.
Focus Shift Shooting Menu:
Starting Storage Folder:
New Folder: – Ticked & works correctly
Reset File Numbering: – when ticked & raw files processed by Nikon Transfer 2 (v 2.12.9) produced said sub files & numbering correctly.
But – after testing, unticked “Reset File Numbering” to find that my global file numbering had reset to 0008.
I had a keeper at 0049 but on shooting more tests, camera produced a second 0049 Raw file.
Could you try and replicate this, if you have time, my friend? I would like to know your thoughts.
Thanking you. Colin B Sanders
Nasim,
I’m just curious to here your opinion regarding the jump in quality I might expect if moving up from the D610. Between the increased DR, the missing OLPF, and the increase MP’s I’m guessing I could see a pretty obvious impact in my landscape photography. I’ve been really pleased with my D610 overall but I keep feeling like I’m leaving some money on the table in terms of IQ.
Also do you plan on putting the snap bridge to the test personally? I’m really curious to know how reliable I can expect it to be as a remote triggering device. I do 95% of my shots on a tripod using my trusty Nikon remote trigger.
Thanks,
Sean
500px.com/seanbancroft
Sean, it is a pretty huge jump from the D610 in every way. For your type of work, moving up to the D850 will make a lot of sense and you will see the impact right away.
Hi Nasim,
Another great in depth review, and as I await delivery of my D850, I look forward to the updates.
I’m reading conflicting buffer numbers between the Sony G and Lexar 2933x XQD’s with 14 bit lossless RAW, have you found any variation
between the two if tested?
Cheers
Marc
Marc, I don’t have the two XQD cards to test, so I cannot yet report on their performance.
Nasim, I have a Lexar 64GB XQD 2933X card with reader, if you would like to borrow. Just let me know and I can mail/UPS to you.
WEJ
Hi Nasim,
Thank you for the thoughtful website and many wonderful articles.
Whenever a new camera comes out, people are eager to share sample photos, purportedly to show the capability of the new camera. But rarely (if ever) are the same (or similar) photos taken with an older model (but the same lens), as a direct comparison. Given that your review is still ongoing, can I encourage you to do so? For example, take the same shots with a D750, and allow for a comparison and discussion.
Perhaps, even for some fun, initially blind the reader to the camera, and see if folks can tell. That would be a fun thing to do!
I sincerely appreciate your honest and helpful efforts.
Buzz, thank you for your feedback.
While that’s an interesting idea, I don’t really see the point of doing such a comparison, especially at web resolution images (I export everything at 2048 pixels long). Once down-sampled, it will be impossible to tell the difference between the D750 and the D850. There might be slight color differences, but other than that, it will all look the same. The only way to assess cameras is to either show them at full resolution (which I am not going to do, because full resolution files are massive and it will put too much bandwidth load on my servers), but then it will be very easy to tell which is which. If you are looking for differences between cameras, I would recommend to look at DPReview’s camera comparison tool – you can even extract full-size RAW files to do comparisons on your own.
Hi nasim
Great review as usual. Can I get your reviews as a single pdf so I can read them offline?
Chris, unfortunately, we do not have a way to create PDFs from the website content. One thing you can try doing, is printing out each page to PDF, then merging the PDFs together into a single document. It will take some effort, but if you want to be able to read offline, it should work out.
Bias beyond believe!
Deleting this website from my bookmarks!
Zenon the disbelief is a “Canon’’ supported not admitting there is a better camera brand called Nikon
Perhaps as a word of encouragement you should tryout the D850 and then you would return to the Nikon fold
John
The disbelief is a “Canon’’ supported not admitting there is a better camera brand called Nikon
Perhaps as a word of encouragement you should tryout the D850 and then you would return to the Nikon fold
John
Bye Bye Zenon I’m sure Canon will catch up and overtake soon, but they have to catch with Sony first, haha..
Hi Nazim
Very interesting D850 comparison as result of the camera being so great and needing a second body will really consider to upgrade from my beloved D800e which has been an excellent camera – many great shots taken with the D800e
With the various RAW file sizes which is best to shoot in Lossless Compression or Uncompressed
Which do you prefer and shoot in and what is your reason with your selection.
Coming from beautiful Sydney Australia my only sorrow and regret is the advantage you have of buying from B+H at great price of USS3296. 95 in Australia the price of the D850 is AUD$5400 (US$43200 equivalent) OUCH and that’s a big OUCH
Not only is that a significant price difference but the price diff certainly hurts….vertually price of a good Nikon lens. Still figuring a way to buy from B+H and ship to Australia
Really enjoy reading your articles and eagerly await each email with more interesting and fascinating article with good coffee and chocky biscuits.
Don’t know how you have the time to keep writing these wounderful articles…..do you forsake sleep and other pleasure (photography) to give us more and more artiles
You know all your reader are addicted to your articles….going a day without a articles causes withdrawl sumptoms.
Have a great day and keep up with your good work
John
Amazon can’t open quickly enough in Oz!
Thank you for your feedback John, I appreciate it :) I do spend quite a bit of time writing articles – sometimes I wish there were more hours in a day! The review is already at almost 16 thousand words and I haven’t even started the AF section. Crazy!
By the way, I will be publishing my “Recommended Nikon D850 Settings” article, so hopefully it will give you some insight on camera settings. For camera RAW, you should always be shooting Lossless Compressed – Uncompressed simply results in large files with zero benefits. Too bad Nikon is pricing the camera so differently worldwide…I wish their pricing was the same everywhere.
If this camera turns out to be as good as promised and avoids the recent Nikon full frame QA problems it will be great for those who want to spend this much money and carry this much weight. Since we just saw similar way-over-the-top hype for the Sony A9 I’m a little surprised that they are able to rev it up again so soon. After a few months it seems like buyers are not giving the A9 the reviews we might have expected from all the ‘huge breakthrough, best camera ever made’ hype. We’ll to wait a while to really see how the D850 does.
Thanks for this review. I’m glad you decide to publish this as it evolved because it helped me make a decision to order one. One question: what is the performance with the En-El 15 battery? I have 2 from my D810 and assume I can use them.
The EN-EL15 and EN-EL15a are interchangeable between both D810 and D850, which is very convenient. I own both cameras and have had no issues swapping batteries with either model. I assume this would be the case with any camera that takes the older EN-EL15. Nikon did us a huge favor here! They even use the same battery charger. The newer EN-EL15a has somewhat more intelligent charging and low temperature performance, but that’s about it. Contrary to popular belief, there is no power difference between the two. Both are still labeled as 7.0V 1900mAh 14Wh and deliver the same amount of power. The newer one just has a more intelligent charge and discharge circuit to avoid the overheating issues that early EN-EL15’s were recalled for, and not drop the voltage quite as fast in cold weather.
Yep – no problems using the older EN-EL15. But I only have the Li-ion 20 versions, not the earlier (Li-ion 01) ones so can’t test them.
Nasim, thanks for the fantastic review……….so appreciated! I just received my D850 three days ago and am soaking up as much info as possible. Your article was PERFECT timing. Please keep the reviews flowing.
Hi Nasim, I stumbled onto this review by fortuitous accident, and I’m glad I did. A wonderful job! Plus you confirmed me in my decision to buy a D850; mine is on order.
One question: My D800E has a ‘feature’ that drives me crazy, and occasionally costs me a shot or three. I shoot many events in fixed manual mode, letting Auto ISO move between 100-6400 to capture the shot. I love Auto ISO! BUT as soon as I turn on my flash, Auto ISO is clamped to +/-2 stops. So if I set the baseline ISO to 800 for example, with flash on I’m good for 200-3200. A generous range, but I occasionally get caught out if I’m not paying attention. This is a bizarre and very arbitrary software limitation as I see it. Do you know if this limitation is maintained in the D850? Thanks!
The D850 has a new, separate high ISO you can set under ISO sensitivity settings for flash specifically now. I’m not aware of any clamps like you are talking about with the D800E, but I have not owned that model. Custom settings for flash sync speed, flash shutter speed, and slow sync flash modes can raise or lower your ISO unexpectedly though with a flash.
Thank you for that, Aaron. I’ll know for sure when my D850 arrives. I’m no. 8 on the list here in Tucson, but the cameras are just trickling in to the local store. Early October, I’m told.
Hope you get it soon! I don’t use flash a lot with my D810 or D850 as I mostly shoot landscape astrophotography and timelapses.
So, for general everyday shooting: street, some architecture, and the occasional landscape why would a D850 be ‘better’ than a D500? Thank you
Frank millard Evergreen, CO
Frank, that’s the question of FX vs DX. Many reasons really – 1 stop better image quality, no crop for lenses, more resolution, better dynamic range, etc. However, those are not reasons why you should be upgrading. If the D500 does what you need it to do and you don’t max it out, why upgrade?
Great as always Nasim, I have the D3s, D810 and D500 but sold the D810 and D500 to buy the D850 which I should have in a few days, I know the D3s is old now but it’s a great camera and that’s why I’m keeping it. Anyway if you had to choose 1 would it be Helicon or Zerene for your stacking?
Chris, Helicon is what I would pick. It has better and more intuitive UI in my opinion.
Thank you Nassim;)
You are doing great work man
Is their a way to make it video?
As a life skills trainer, your handling the comments with very high EQ. Great and keep it up.
Your effort is highly appreciated
Nasim puts so much effort in tables, charts and comparisons – I prefer to read instead have to watch the whole thing and afterwards, if I want to recheck, watch the whole thing again.
Maybe it would be more entertaining. But in this way it’s more informative and better searchable. There are already gazillion YouTubers “testing” (and blurbing, with no or not much skills to do so). I’d vote very much for keeping it this way, Nasim.
Excellent review once again! I used to be a Canon shooter and about a year ago I switched to Nikon and never looked back. This camera can do pretty much everything one needs. 47MB may be too much for some but hey you can shoot in less resolution if that’s what you want. Excellent job Nikon for not giving us a crippled camera in order to force us to get a more expensive model.
Nasim, on page 1 of this review you wrote:
“A few members of the Photography Life team have been shooting with the Nikon D810 since the camera has been released,”.
Should that be D850 instead of D810?
William, that was a typo, which I fixed. Thanks for letting me know!
Nasim, I have a question about the D850 I could use your help with.
I got mine three weeks ago and love it. But I can’t get this camera to trigger a flash when in silent LV mode.
It fires my CLS setup when I’m in Mirror Up/electronic front curtain/exposure delay mode in viewfinder mode.
It fires the same when I turn silent mode off with electric front curtain/exposure delay mode in LV.
Why not with silent mode?
OK, I found it. It is in the D850 pdf Menu Guide, page 96.
Nikon saved some money on the Users Manual and didn’t bother to report this there (at least I couldn’t find it).
The menu manual is already pretty big. 274 pages menu manual, 378 pages user manual. Sets quite a benchmark in volume
I don’t mind a big Manual. But why split it up and hide stuff only in the pdf Menu Guide? (rhetorical question only Nikon can answer)
I can imagine two reasons: They also deliver printed manuals. 652 pages are pretty big, heavy and not very handy. Also, in Switzerland a Nikon comes with three manuals: German, French, Italian. In Belgium French and Flamish.
Splitting these 652 pages into two smaller books makes sense in case you want to carry them in your photobag
Would it be possible to download the original full-, mRAW- and sRAW-Files from part 17 for my own playground?
Julia, those are massive in size, which is why I did not provide the downloads.
Nasim, the “problem” has solved itself: my D850 arrived today. Now I can do my own experiments with the medium and small RAW files compared to the full RAW. :)
Gr8 review! How is the lag time between taking the shot and seeing it on the display compared to the d810 (which is slow imo)?
Jesse, much better – almost no lag in comparison. The same goes for viewing images or live view on the LCD when zoomed in – the D810 lags a lot, while the D850 is very smooth.
Follow up question:
Is it still fast to display when using mraw/sraw? IE does the extra processor load to downsize the files result In extra lag to display?
Thanks!
Great review Nasim … and thank you for not posting it in a bunch of little pieces … great idea!
I don’t go running out to buy the latest body when it comes out. When I bought the D810 it was after all the “gotta have it” people paid full price. I waited until the Christmas sales that first year and grabbed one for $600 off. It still sells today for more than I paid for it back then.
I was all set to grab the D500 when it was announced (after the sale prices appeared), but when I saw the loss of the AE-L button, I was wondering how I would be able to change my shooting method. I only use the AF-ON button to focus, and I use the AE-L to lock the metering. Easy to do on the D810 and previous DX flagship, as both buttons are there. So, the plan was that I would have the D500 for reach and speed, and the D810 for quality and low ISO.
In the meantime, I saw the specs for the D850. Now it is possible to get almost the same speed with higher resolution, eliminating both the speed and reach advantages of the D500. Plus, you get the native 64 ISO that was my main reason for getting the D810. However, again I lose the AE-L button. There is room for it there … why did they remove it?
So, due to the higher MP sensor on the D850, there is no reach or speed advantage any longer to getting the D500. In other words, cropping the D850 image will give you about the same resolution as the D500. The D850 can be used for speed, reach, and image quality. The D810 will be a fantastic backup or 2nd mounted body, but not until I get a deal on the D850. I don’t mind waiting, since I have great gear already. So, thank you to all those who “gotta have it” that are paying full price so that I will be able to pay less for mine!
Are there any tests done with the D850 + Grip with AA batteries in it?
This time the prices first went down after announcement and meanwhile they are increasing. Since the D850 has so many cool features to offer, Nikon would be a bit stupid to lowering the price. And it’s more demand than manufactured cameras are around, so you can already watch prices of 1000 $ over the official selling price point on eBay.
You can program the Joystick press to AE-Lock
AE-L can be remapped to Pv, Fn1, AF-ON, joystick, or lens Fn buttons (the lens Fn can’t do reset or hold, only lock). Fn2 is really the only button that can’t be customized very much, Pv, Fn1, and the joystick are highly customizeable.
Nikon hasn’t shipped any MB-D18 vertical grips to the USA yet to do any testing with it. Several manufacturers like Really Right Stuff are also waiting for them to finish their L bracket designs.
Hi Nasim,
great review, as always!
Do you plan to compare image quality against the Fuji GFX 50s? I have a quite old Nikon kit and I’m wondering about upgrading it to the newer lenses and cameras or to keep the dslr for general use and switch to the gfx for landscape work. The kit I have still serves me well for the reportage and portrait work and also for the small work in sport I do. But, expecially due to a new important customer with very high requests, I’m starting to feel that a more advanced hardware would help my landscape work. I’m still able to accomplish their requests with my current set, but it requires really too much post production work for cleaning, upsizing and so on.
Lorenzo, I am waiting for proper support from folks at RawDigger, so that I can adjust exposure through their software, instead of relying on Adobe. Unfortunately, because of the way Adobe interprets Fuji RAW files, images look severely underexposed when compared to those from the D850. This means that the comparisons would be invalid, since you would be looking at a much darker image. RawDigger corrects that with Fuji files and comparisons are more valid. However, I cannot compare DR at the moment, since there is no way to adjust exposure. As soon as this feature is available, I will publish my findings.
Hello Nassim. Great review.
I just wanted to pint out one thing about the “benefit to shoot at 64 and 32 iso”.
For 64 iso, you are completely right, this can be usefull, like when shooting at a large aperture in daylight.
But 32 iso won’t have any benefit in this situation. If you shoot at 1/8000s, f/1.4 and 64 iso, shooting at 32 iso will just be the same than shooting at 64 iso and reducing the exposure in lightroom. You won’t recover any more highlight. In fact this is even a bit worse than at 64 iso.
I personnaly tried with my D610 to compare iso 50 and iso 100 with -1EV in lightroom. The loss in highlights is a bit more important with 50 iso.
As a conclusion, Lo iso (32 or 50 depending on the DSLR) will only be usefull if you want to make long exposure, at the conditions that you don’t have a risk of highlight in your picture and you don’t post-prod your picture.
ISO 32 has been useful for me in the past with the D810 and timelapses and waterfalls, even with an ND filter. That extra stop lets you get a longer shutter speed with smoother motion blur for timelapses or flowing water, and/or one more aperture stop for shallower depth of field, without blowing highlights. For most shots though, probably better to just shoot at ISO 64 and adjust in post.
Aaron,
“[…]more aperture stop for shallower depth of field, without blowing highlights.””
–>Sorry but you are wrong on that ! Iso 32 won’t allow you to preserve any highlight. You will have the same blown highlights in both cases. According to my tests (if it behaves the same than 50 iso compared to 100 iso), the situation will even be a bit worse with 32 iso.
It’s been a while since I’ve done it, I was using the multiple exposure feature to simulate a longer shutter speed, and it made a difference using ISO 32 vs 64. For most shots, I’d just as soon shoot ISO 64 and edit in post.
I partially agree with what you’ve said. If the person behind the camera knows that ISO 32 is a software boost to ISO 64 (just like all other extended ISOs), they should keep always keep that in the back of their head and always ETTR, then adjust in post. However, that’s not how most photographers shoot. When they see highlights blown out in a histogram or via blinkies, they typically end up underexposing, even though at the time of shooting they might be preserving all the information in the RAW file. Shooting with ISO 32 can help in such situations, because that’s one less thing to worry about. Of course all of this could be eliminated if manufacturers were able to read their own RAW files and display accurate RAW histograms and blinkes on cameras – that would take care of so many issues in the field!
Have you tested the AF performance against the D5/D500? See here.
Only members can view that video. The crux of how the D850 peforms in action photography, wildlife especially, hinges on its AF performance. This video by Matt Granger suggests it is not as good as the D5 at tracking moving subjects. Not yet clear how the AF in the D850 compores to the D500. Th new processor should give it the edge
www.youtube.com/watch…dX8H6YSfZA
It would be interesting to see if using the battery grip closed the gap with the d5.
Jeff, that’s an interesting comparison. Haven’t tested the D850 against the D5 or the D500, but I wonder if the extra resolution and processing that’s required to go through 45 MP vs 20 MP has to do with the reduced AF performance. Will need to test AF in more detail to see what’s going on.
Also, let’s not forget that the AF mode AF used is not a very common mode to use for shooting sports and wildlife – he relied on 3D tracking, which I personally rarely ever touch. It would be interesting to see how these cameras do with dynamic AF tracking. That’s far more important in the field.
Two very good points there Nasim. I look forward to your findings on the AF performance. For example, would it improve in lower MP modes since less processing is (?) required? Perhaps this is time for a thorough overview of what is and what isn’t possible with AF modules, as I think it’s been many years since Nikon have explained the workings clearly, as they did with the original implementations in the F5/F100.
For example, do most people know that the dynamic modes work to estimate the position of the subject around 40 milliseconds after you’ve hit the shutter, since that is the typical release delay? By tracking a subject with the AF points around the chosen one (9, 25, 51, 153 etc), the speed of the subject is estimated to effectively move the AF to where the subject should be. This works best for objects travelling toward or diagonally in a reasonably constant speed, like horse-racing, runners, cyclists etc.
For subjects that are moving erratically (footballers etc) or very high speed (Falcons), there is no tracking system that could apply this estimation method accurately, so single point AF is generally better.
For subjects that are moving across the frame and therefore change in distance only slightly, single point, Group, Auto or 3D are best, remembering the the third dimension in 3D is colour/contrast (nothing to do with depth). The choice between those typically depends on the size of the subject and the light conditions. Understanding the subject recognition process, and choosing the blocked-subject sensitivity are the key issues.
Anyway, what I’ve found is that in reality there is not a huge difference between the Nikon systems since about the D3/300 models. What has changed is the performance in low light and the spread of sensors, hence the D500 is particularly good. But the identification and tracking algorithms are broadly similar in my experience. I recently tried the new 70-300 AF-P FX on a D300 – faster than any other Nikon lens even on a D5!
Your ‘camera comparisons’ page that shows the 850 vs other cameras throughout the ISO range is great. Could you do a D850 vs D500 ISO test? It’s likely the 850 will win by a little bit if you downsize to 21MP, but it would be really interesting to see 850 cropped to DX vs D500. Thanks for your review!
Then the comparaison should be done with downsizing the D850 picture at 20 MP. For sure that will be interesting.
Steve, I would love to, but I don’t have a D500 on hand at the moment to be able to test. Plus, I am currently away from home and will be traveling overseas until November :( However, there are a couple of things to keep in mind. We already know that one can expect at least one full stop difference between FX and DX, which means that there is no point in trying to compare a downsampled image from the D850 to the one from the D500. Now, if you are wondering how much better the D850 will be in DX mode, there are a couple of things to keep in mind. First, there is going to be very little difference in resolution – 19.4 MP vs 20.9 MP, which means that the two cameras should have comparable performance without the need to downsample. However, don’t forget that the D850 is equipped with ISO 64, which the D500 doesn’t have. For wildlife and sports shooting, this is not that big of a deal, but for anyone who shoots landscapes or architecture with the D500, dynamic range differences are going to be pretty big. Also, let’s not forget that the newer BSI CMOS sensor on the D850 does deliver slightly better overall performance, so it should look a tad cleaner, especially at higher ISOs. This is based on my observations so far comparing the D850 with other cameras.
Once I get back, I will try to get a sample D500 to do a comparison, but I don’t think my results will differ greatly from the above…
Great piece — well written — thanks for posting.
John, we’re glad that you’ve enjoyed the review! We will be posting more content and images!
Thanks for the high ISO comparisons! At high ISOs, D850 images look sharper than D750, A9 etc due to the downsizing effect. This is expected. But it also means that one can employ much more aggressive noise reduction on D850 images before downsizing and still retain comparable sharpness. Doing so will bring the camera very close to the high ISO performance from other lower MP cameras.
So, in practice, the high ISO performance will look much closer to those low resolution cameras if noise reduction is applied to maintain similar level of details
Pro, I would tend to agree with your statement – if one applies noise reduction at full resolution, it is certainly possible to reduce it even further with down-sampling. That’s the advantage of higher resolution sensors.
Why does Nikon even have uncompressed RAW as an option when there is no quality difference compared to lossless compressed?
Benny, I have no idea – that option should be removed from firmware, because there is no advantage in shooting uncompressed. Canon realized this long time ago and doesn’t even have that as an option on its cameras. Nikon should follow suit and have two options – Lossless and Lossy.
There is a concept in your review of the Nikon D850 that I do not understand. You state that down sampling an image to a lower resolution will show decreased noise. If the D850 takes a picture at 45.7 MP, why would less noise be displayed at a resolution of 24.3 MP with the D850? Less area of the image is captured at 24.3MP but the pixel density for both shots would be the same so why would there be less noise?
Because that’s how downsampling works. When you reduce a noisy image in resolution, you see less noise in the resulting image, because several pixels are reduced into a single one. This resizing algorithm reduces noise and increases sharpness (when a proper algorithm is selected). Try it out – take a noisy image at high resolution, then reduce its size to much smaller resolution and look at it at 100% view and compare both side by side. That’s why when you look at say a 36 MP image from a D810 and compare it to a 24 MP image from a D750, when both are looked at 100% view (pixel-level), images at the same ISO look less noisy on the D750. However, once the 36 MP is reduced to 24 MP, the images look very similar.
You wrote again about the Nikon D850 buffer, which has 51 if it’s 14-bit compressed,
why does my have only buffer of 20 images with the same correct settings?
Also 12-bit compressed gives me 30 only
Mark, the buffer will depend heavily on what card you are using – you must use the fastest XQD card and default to it in your camera to be able to get a large enough buffer.
Keep in mind that buffer capacity is not only determined by the actual memory allocated for images in the camera, but also by how quickly the buffer content is moved to the card – the faster the card, the more images you can shoot continuously.
Hi Nasim,
Great review.. can you think of any reason why us landscape shooters wouldn’t now use silent shutter + live view instead of MUP, seems the perfect choice.. no vibration, can combine with self timer, reduced shutter wear?
Thanks
Simon
Simon, either that or the “Q” mode would be the way to go. The only thing with silent shutter to watch out for is any kind of movement – water reflections, windy conditions, etc.
For sports or wildlife photography, is there an advantage in shooting in cropped DX mode versus shooting in Full Frame and cropping during post processing?
You get more buffer capacity shooting in DX mode. Other than that, there is really no advantage. In fact, if you don’t care for the bigger buffer, it is best to shoot in FX, then crop what you need. This way, if whatever subjects gets out of the DX frame, you still have the full image, so you don’t end up cutting anything off.
Thanks for the response Nasim.
As a followup, is your response specific to the 850 or would you still hold the same opinion with a lower resulution full frame such as the D750?
Much appreciated. And by the way thanks for hosting such an excellent website.
I wouldn’t shoot DX on other cameras with less megapixels, since you lose too much resolution (I believe DX mode on the D750 is only 10 MP).
My experience with D810 is most likely valid for D850 as well. If storage capacity or buffer is an issue then shoot DX by all means but FX confers several advantages :
– when using lenses of 300 mm or more, the wider FX field of view makes it easier to acquire and focus on your subject, especially if its in motion.
– more latitude for cropping and adjusting composition in PP
– subjects can approach closer and still fit in the pic
I think in a situtation when I need all the reach I could get from the longest focal length I brought with me, but still am too far away, I already know I will crop (or skip the shot), then shooting in DX is an advantage as I generate less big RAW files. Of course I can crop a full FX file – but I keep the full size although I cropped. So I don’t save diskspace.
The bird will not get more details by cropping so I can easily live without a lot of wasted diskspace.
Nasim,
I am interested in the focus stacking capability of this camera. Nikon’s information on it has been pretty skimpy IMO. I’m referring specifically to what the various steps mean and how they affect the stacking. In your evaluation you shot the moth using 30 images. I have shot many insects of approximately the same size and magnification using focus stacking and never have needed anywhere near that number of images to cover the DOF. Usually 8 to 10 will cover the necessary range. Occasionally when there is surrounding foliage that I want to be in focus that can increase to 20 or so. When you have the large files from shooting full frame with the D850 the number of frames needed becomes a significant consideration.
Reports I’ve read from people who have used this capability have very positive things to say about it. My D850 is on order so I have no personal experience. However it seems to me there’s a lot of guesswork (or practical experience) required to use it. It’s also my impression that a lot more images per stack are being shot than would be necessary to cover the DOF. With the large files from the D850, I don’t want to be shooting 30 frames when 8-10 would suffice.
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This is actually not true. The three year old Sony A7r II beats or matches the D850 at most ISOs above 200 or so. “Overall” however, the Sony has a slightly higher DR.
www.photonstophotos.net/Chart…kon%20D850
The quote I quoted did not appear in my post. Below is the quote from the review I was commenting on:
Overall though, the D850 is without a doubt the new king of dynamic range among all full-frame cameras on the market.
Brian, Dynamic Range performance is not evaluated by how well the camera does at all ISOs, but by how much total DR it has at any setting (which is typically its base ISO). This makes sense, because DR at high ISOs don’t matter for the most part, as you end up with too much noise and an insane drop of total DR. The Nikon D850 has more DR at ISO 64 than any other full-frame camera on the market and if we look at the data provided by the website you linked, the A7R II is only better at ISOs above 600. Until now, the Nikon D810 had the highest DR among all full-frame cameras and the D850 will take its spot, because it has even more DR at ISO 64.
Looking at the results from the same website, they measured pretty much the same DR at ISO 64 for both cameras, which is questionable. While I like looking at numbers and stats, I would love to see their original RAW files used to determine DR for both cameras. I would be surprised to see that they don’t notice any DR differences between the two, when the studio tests reveals color noise differences, as demonstrated in this review. Perhaps they are not using visual inspection of images and relying on some automated methods to calculate DR, which don’t take into account such differences and only rely on blown out or underexposed values, in which case I could see why they derived the same numbers.
I am waiting for Iliah Borg to deliver exposure adjustments to either RawDigger or FRV, so that I could make exposure adjustments to images and export them as TIFF – perhaps the differences I am seeing are Adobe’s cause (since I used Adobe DNG converter to read Nikon NEF files).
Compared to my d810, which has a very robust lens release button and spring, the lens release on my d850 feels looser with less spring tension and a tiny bit of travel before it engages the spring. For others who have received theirs, is this observation consistent with your copies of the camera? I really appreciate anyone who can weigh in. Thanks!
To me, the D850 feels more like a more professional D750 (deeper grip and similar shutter sound (something like expensive hard plastic compared to the damped, full sound of the D810), yet much better LCD) than the feeling of the D800 / D810. Someone mentioned “all magnesium body” – that might be but still some parts feel plasticky. Haven’t looked especially into that lock release button (it’s bigger, no?) because I was too occupied with wondering that a lot of my lenses which needed AFMA on D810 appeared to be much more precise – that goes for Sigma Art lenses as well as for Nikkors.
treist, it feels better to me than my D810 or D700, but that could be because of use and wear?
Thanks, Aaron. It feels firmer than your 810?
I had a D850 for about half an hour on a demo day (though I’m not going to buy), and as ergonomics is a key feature for me, I did consider the shutter. The sound is certainly louder and less ‘smooth’ than the D810. It’s similar to the D750 and D500 in that there’s a bit of play, but I think it feels a fraction more solid. This may be because the front of the body is a good slab of magnesium rather than the plastic of the D750. I suppose telling whether the overall sensation comes from the mechanism, chassis or just luck is hard to tell.
Nikon releases have always been a bit clunky. If you really want smooth, apart from the D810, most Canon’s are quieter.
Another minor downside is that the PV and front Function button on the D850 are now recessed slightly into the mount surround, rather than being unencumbered buttons. I found it a bit annoying having to locate your finger in the detent.
On the other hand, the overall dimensions are pretty much ideal for me with reasonably large hands, including the increased gap between the buttons on the back.
Hi Nasim, thanks for the great review. As someone has mentioned before, it would be so useful if you could make some observations about the performance of the D850 compared to the D5, especially in terms of ISO performance in low light conditions, not the silly values but the ones that one occasionally needs in a pinch, like 6,400 or at most 12,800. I am between the two cameras and the D5 is priced just below the D850 on the second-hand market. I suspect the 21mp of the D5 would be enough for me.
To me, the D850 feels more like a more professional D750 (deeper grip and similar shutter sound (something like expensive hard plastic compared to the damped, full sound of the D810), yet much better LCD) than the feeling of the D800 / D810. Someone mentioned “all magnesium body” – that might be but still some parts feel plasticky. Haven’t looked especially into that lock release button (it’s bigger, no?) because I was too occupied with wondering that a lot of my lenses which needed AFMA on D810 appeared to be much more precise – that goes for Sigma Art lenses as well as for Nikkors.
Thanks for a great review so far Nasim. As usual you guys are presenting finer detail and analysis than the superficial reviews on most other sites. Much appreciated.
May I suggest, since this review is being periodically supplemented, that you move the revison history on page 1 to the start of the narrative. This will enable us to see at a glance from the homepage when new info is added rather than subscribing or having to load the article and scroll down to see if anything changed.
Best regards and keep up the good work.
Wow Nasim, your camera to camera comparisons (with mRAW/sRAW tossed in, DR, and noise, resolution, shadow recovery, etc.) are invaluable! Very illustrative of the power of Nikon image processing which we know to be already very good, and with the D850 they appear to have done it again, only better than ever.
It’s possible the D850 does pack a D750 and D5 inside of it, which is not bad for only having to buy a single camera.
Hi Nasim,
As always an in-depth review with the right balance between practical and visual analysis and emphasis on numbers. I liked the section with focus on mRAW and sRAW and also the image comparison with the Nikon d750(being a Nikon D750 shooter myself).
I was just wondering, how does the Nikon D850 stack up against the middle format mirror less cameras like the Fujifilm GFX or Hasselblad X1D in the area of image quality. If you have the opportunity test this, please do share it with us, it would be great! Looking forward to further updates…
Cheers
Keerthan.
Hi Nasim,
As always an in-depth review with the right balance between practical and visual analysis and emphasis on numbers. I liked the section with focus on mRAW and sRAW and also the image comparison with the Nikon d750(being a Nikon D750 shooter myself).
I was just wondering, how does the Nikon D850 stack up against the middle format mirror less cameras like the Fujifilm GFX or Hasselblad X1D in the area of image quality. If you have the opportunity test this, please do share it with us, it would be great! Looking forward to further updates…
Cheers
Kurt.
Excellent and much appreciated article. Thank you! Do you have plans to add how certain lenses perform with the 850? I’d be very interested to see how the 70-200 f/4 and 16-35 f/4 hold up.
Thanks again!
Dave
Hi Nasim – as always many, many thanks for the excellent review. I too would love to hear how the Nikon D850 stacks up compared to the Fuji GFX 50s that you also reviewed from an image quality point of view. I’m sure others would be really interested in this too. Many thanks in advance for any information you can provide.
Hi Nasim,
Great article on the Nikon D850. I am looking forward to reading the rest of the article when you finish reviewing the camera. Do you have any recommendations on which Nikon full frame lenses would be suitable for the D850, in order to make use of the camera’s high resolution?
Hello,
I know I am not Nasim, but I noticed your question had not been answered yet, and I thought I might be able to help.
The other day, I was visiting Nikon Rumors and found these two articles:
nikonrumors.com/2017/…list.aspx/
nikonrumors.com/2017/…mera.aspx/
They both cover the topic of best Nikon lenses used with the D850.
Thanks for the links
Hi Nasim, thanks for your always excellent reviews. And I share your opinion regarding gear (The Camera Hype article). I’d love to have the 850 but am entirely satisfied with my D7200 and some fine lenses. They can do everything I want them to.
Regarding S/M-Raw: Germanys well know Blogger and Timelapse specialist Gunter Wegener published his Investigation on this matter. He found out that lossy S/M-Raw conversion is inferior to DNG conversion, it retains all Information from the 850 raw fiile but reduces ist size by about 40%. So if filesize is the matter e.g. for postprocessing this would be the option of choice. Link here is in german but well illustrated so sort of understandable ;-) gwegner.de/revie…-mit-d750/
And by the way: converting D7200 files to DNG does NOT reduce filesize so essentially.
All the best
Guido from Munich, Germany
DNG conversion in each case blows up the file sizes significantly. Which is clear because the DNG is additional information and keeps the original or replaces it – at least that’s what I read about that.
yes but only if you select to embed the raw into DNG.
Cheers, Guidoo
No, in each case the DNG is larger than the genuine RAW – how should it work otherwise? DNG is not compressing a RAW down, it tries to transform the RAW into more open format without deleting any information. Please show me a single example when a DNG is smaller than the RAW?
All I can say is that I downloaded some D850 raws from Imaging-Resource.com, converted them to DNG as described by Gunther Wegner (that’s the correct spelling, sorry) and played around with them in DXO incl. some comparisons to native RAW. No difference but ~40% less filesize.
See Nasim’s article from 2015: photographylife.com/why-i…les-to-dng.
I tried DNG again not long ago. Sigma dp x quattro and sd x quattro offer the possibility to save their highly genuine Foveon RAW files as DNG, simply to be able to open them in more standard RAW converters. No other converter can read the Foveon quattro RAW afaik. Wasting abozt 20-30% more diskspace, loosing some metadata and the lens and color profiles somply doesn’t make it attractive to work in DNG.
For some reason the D750 images looked misfocused.
Thank you Nasim as always for your insightful information. I took the plunge and upgraded from My D800E to the D850. There were few things that really annoyed me about the D800E despite that fact that I loved it for what I do which is mostly landscape but also indoor events. I wrote a blog on my experience so far including some nuances that I encountered here business.yocale.com/nikon…-upgraded/ , all in all happy with it so far…although I have had only a couple of weeks of play time.
Hi Nasim,
You indicated the AF section of this review was in process. I very much hope you can address as best you can the comparison of Tracking AF of the D850 vs the D5. It is probably a bit much but a compare to the Canon 5D mk 4 would also be helpful. Your read on Tracking AF with and without burst mode would aide a imminent purchasing decision. I understand this is a tough item to test but appreciate any light you can shed on the subject. In any case, a sincere thanks for whatever information you are able to provide.
Bruce, I am currently working on the AF section. Quick summary – AF is much better compared to the D810, but slower compared to the D5 when shooting fast action, most likely due to much more data being processed between bursts, which puts more burden on the CPU.
Hi Nasim,
I see you used the 24-120 F4 for some shots on the D850? I remember reading your review of this lens and how positive you were about it, have things change now you have it on the D850, some reviewers seem to be not so keen?
Thanks
Simon
Simon, absolutely haven’t changed my mind on the Nikkor 24-120mm f/4G VR – still a wonderful lens and I still love mine, even on the D850.
Trip with daughter two weeks ago with D810 and D850. My conclusion is that the 850 has better tuned “standard” etc. profiles so that 90% of vacation pics don’t need any post whatsoever. One can tune the profiles in the D810 and get the same vibrant results. The D810 was sabotaged by Nikon itself for not releasing the power of profiles. For example, a DigLloyd custom profile on the D810 yielded sharper pics than the standard on the D850. Wow ah?
The D850 measures the WB better. Almost all pics were correctly exposed. The D810 needs post-processing of the WB often. This again can be fixed to a great extent by fine tuning the profiles.
Also, careful with the shaking – whatever speed you were using, increase it by 50%. It shows even without magnification, kind of puzzles the trained eye. A horse looks strange though perfectly exposed – you say “why, it looks so sharp!”, so you magnify and you see this tiny shaking on the horse hair, which even without magnification is enough to not fully satisfy the experienced user. No problemo with the D810. Sony knew something when they put that IBIS.
I also saw that most of my daughter’s pics with the D810 had better artistic value because she was framing naturally and thinking about the picture, while I was occupied with settings and lenses and nonsense. So I sold the D810 and bought her an nice graphite-silver XT2. Seriously.
Back home in a controlled environment and the Zeiss 135, my results matched yours – at 64 and 100 ISO, the 810 and 850 are practically the same. I do miss the little commander flash. Please tell us how to do commander-slave without much extra weight and devices now.
any comment on the color compared to D810?
My D810 has a rather obvious cold tint (green/blue cast) compared to D750 and D7100.
Richard, if you are referring to the color cast coming from the LCD, you can change that in the camera menu. I do not notice any casts on my D810 when compared to my D750 and I don’t see differences between the D810 and the D850 either in this regard.
As usually it was very interesting and instructive to read your comparison, as usually you did a hard work. Thank you Nassim. I don’t need to be convinced that Nikon have great cameras as I’m a Nikon user. I own the D800 and the D7000. Before the D850 I was thinking to upgrade my D7000 and my D800 with a D500 and D810. Today I will only need to buy a D850 and keep my D800 as a second camera. I never had a bad opinion of Canon, they have very good lens and also good cameras, but to be honest if I was a Canon photographer, I would be a bit disappointed as I don’t see many innovations with Canon. Sony has another issue, Sony is capable of inventing tons of excellent technology in many domains, but after a while they just abandon it. Example: NEX for this reason I don’t go with them. Today If I had to go with another brand that would be Fujifilm as they have excellent products. Fujifilm GFX 50s looks excellent. For now I will continue with Nikon as I’m very happy with the quality of their cameras. I’ve been all around the world and they never had any issue. That said pixel peeping is not what’s giving emotion to most of image watchers and most of people can’t make a difference between smartphone photos and high quality camera. One thing missing on Nikon is wifi, when I’m traveling and want to send a photo it’s always with my iPhone.
It’s exciting to see Nikon bring out an update to the D810, a fantastic camera.
Nasim
I couldn’t help but notice that a good number of your photos were,as expected, taken with a 24-70 2.8.
There are also a good number taken with the 24-120 f4 and those certainly show a much better lens than the naysayers would have us believe.
Those lenses are in the recommended list of Nikon Japan:
www.nikon-image.com/produ…ns.html#a1
yes but many like to stone the 24-120.
Rich, the 24-70mm f/2.8 I used was the Tamron 24-70mm f/2.8 VC G2, not the Nikon 24-70mm. Also, I love my 24-120mm f/4G VR – it is a phenomenal lens. Those who trash it probably have a bad sample…
Nasim,
Have you checked your copies of the D850 for the sensor alignment problem that Lloyd Chambers, diglloyd.com, has found with both copies that he has reviewed?
Ron
Ron, every lens I mounted on both D850 copies that I have used so far worked wonderfully without any issues. Not sure what alignment issues Lloyd encountered, but I don’t see any problems on mine. I think Lloyd said in one of his posts that it was impossible to reach infinity because of the alignment problems, but I haven’t been able to reproduce the issue.
Thank you for the review. So no issues using the 24-120 f4 with the D850?
Not at all – the 24-120mm f/4G VR is wonderful!
Thanks for reply. I’ve owned the 24-120 for some time has been my work horse lens for my D810/D800. Glad to hear I don’t need to update it to move to the D850. A lot of people talk badly of this lens.
Sorry missed that you addressed that lens above.
Two things:
1 Do you know if it’s possible to combine the focus stacking with bracketing for HDR / blending? If it were this would overcome the following limitation of Nikon bodies :
Focus stacking with AEB can be automated using a device called the Promote Control. This works well for Canon bodies but the focus stacking feature is more awkward to use with Nikon SLRs as live view cannot be used to set focus points.
If this can be done on the D850, it would be a huge plus. If not, I wonder if it because it can’t be implemented or whether nobody considered it!
I hope it’s not like another partially implemented Nikon feature: HDR. It’s crippled by not being able to save RAW files. I know it can be done using AEB & combining later but it would be very useful to have the option.
promotesystems.zendesk.com/hc/en…with-Nikon
2 Have you any comment about a something reported by another reviewer (Diglloyd). Namely, that there is a problem with infinity focus on manual lenses (Zeiss ones anyway) related to flange distance?
diglloyd.com/blog/…alOff.html
“Silent Mode” – Hi Nasim (and thank you for the review so far). Have you had the opportunity to explore the silent mode in live view? As a photographer that shoots weddings for example, it would be useful to know what the limitations are when in silent mode – how many FPS/is focus lock accurate/is there a delay/do you shoot what you see/is there a blackout/ etc etc.
My priority is wildlife photography. I shoot with a handful of Nikon cameras and most of the best glass. D5 and D500 are my current main cameras, though I really like the D750 as well. For me, the D810, which I still own, was great if with *just a lens*, but as soon as I added a TC (typically 1.4x or 1.7x and AF Fine Tune the combo), I found softness that was similar to what I found with most crop sensor cameras. So, if you would like the testing to be thorough, I would encourage you to test using the D850 with a 600 f/4 with the current 1.4, 1.7, even the 2.0 if you dare. I know many shooters just crop to get their desired image – that’s not my style. I aim to capture with the camera/lens choice the composition I intend, not crop after the fact. Hoping to see this kind of testing work it’s way into your review.
” I aim to capture with the camera/lens choice the composition I intend, not crop after the fact. ”
I think that’s what all wildlife shooters strive for but, sadly, the wildlife doesn’t always agree :P
( There is no such thing as too much reach when it comes to birds :| )
Thus, the need for crop re-composition from time to time :D
I don’t disagree entirely – especially with smaller critters – to a degree. That said, the point of my comment was that I found using the D810 with teleconverters to yield unacceptable softness and wondered how the D850 compared. How others choose to shoot/crop wasn’t the POINT of the comment, but have been around long enough and talked to enough people to know that many used the D810 with wildlife because of the huge pixel count, PLANNING on cropping the image in post. In that context, no need for TCs, nor longer lens, especially if your primary goal is to produce great screen images.
I have encountered the same dilemma with a number of cropped sensor cameras as well. My theory is that once that the sensor pixel size is below a certain threshold, adding extra glass is enough of a compromise that it leads to the softness – just like shooting an excellent lens through a double pane glass window softens the image.
I have no problem using the TC20-III with my 70-200 f2,8 on my D810
The results are sharp no softness that I would judge as not tolerable.
www.flickr.com/photo…650023971/
I find the current models of the 200 f2G and 300 f2.8G deliver excellent results with TC 14E II and TC 2E III on the D850. There are dedicated reviews here on PL, and also on NikonGear – with the D810
It looks like the MB-D18 battery grip is also compatible with the EN-EL18a/b batteries as long as you get the battery holder to go with it.
These are the big brother batteries used in the D4, D4s and D5 cameras and would allow a ~60% increase in available shots before you have to switch out batteries. ( 3k shots vs 1800 )
Bad news is the batteries are $200ish USD each. Still, using the same battery type / charger for multiple bodies is nice.
Happy owner of a D850 for almost a month now. Among other features, I love the electronic shutter, as I shoot a lot of weather/thunderstorm timelapses and I don’t have to wear out the mechanical shutter.
Bad thing is, the total shutter count INCLUDES photos taken with the electronic shutter as well (I tested it myself). Maybe Nikon should consider adding two values on the Exif file with a future update: Total shutter actuations, and total photos taken.
Since it shoots 4K I am seriously considering starting to shoot some video as well. Any advice on how to reduce/eliminate the dreaded rolling shutter effect?
That’s for the review, Nasim.
Last line should read “Thanks for the review” (autocorrect)
Thanks for the review. I’d still like to see the D850 in DX mode compared to the D500 over a range of ISOs. The D850 is awfully tempting, but I know I will be doing a lot of cropping with wildlife. From what I’ve seen, the per-pixel noise actually looks cleaner on the D500.
Being on a budget it takes me a long time to save up for photography equipment. Right now I have my original Nikon D700 and D810. The D850 looks like it is a winner for sure but wondering since I have two full frame cameras if I am better off purchasing the D500. I have never had a crop sensor Nikon before so was wondering about that. The other option is to sell my D700 or D810 and purchase the D850. Both of my full frame cameras have served me well over the years, yet I know with everything they keep coming out with newer and better equipment.
My photography consists of events, portraits, wildlife and some landscape. So a mixed bag!
Yip the agonies of choices!! I have kept my D500 (an excellent DSLR) mainly for wildlife, and also enjoy the near identical layout and ergonomics to the D850. Its native 10fps is another big +. Above all it’s a D850 backup. the Steve Perry review goes into this agony of choice somewhat…
The other boring factor for upgrades is Cost (!) Selling one of your DSLRs – the D700 – would go quite a way to get a D500, and with the D810 you still have the landscape capability et al ….. But one only lives once, and the D850 is in its own league. Period!
Thanks for latest updates to this excellent & detailed review. It gets better and better :-)
Wildlife photographer Steve Perry recently has released a D850 review that includes comparisons with D5 and D500 (also D810), and has much to say about comparative AF performance.
backcountrygallery.com/nikon…50-review/
And scroll down for ISO comparisons
About that fps table: Matt Granger is pretty disappointed by getting not more than 20 frames 14 bit lossless with a Sony XQD card. I wondered if Nikon would publish this kind of “far off, fake numbers”. I got around 40 shots with a Lexar 128 GB 2933× and a bit less with a Sony 64 GB 400MB/s writing speed. 20% less is a tad massive, but better than Matt’s 20.
After watching his “D850 in Iceland” video, I tried this burst again, this time with Auto ISO (around 6400) and the rate went down rapidly – now I understand Matt’s complaints because I also got only 20 frames :(
I really dont understand this.
Eveytime a new camera is coming out, the old ones is crap. If you read all the reviews about the fantastic dynamic range the new cameras has, you can believe that you can put all your ND grads in the trash can.
It´s like a new era begins with the new models, like it was not possible to make good photographs before the new Gud arise.
Thank you Nasim for the excellent review and all the ongoing work at Photography Life. Like many others I’m sure I have watched numerous D850 videos and read online reviews and your’s is pretty much the best in terms of digging into the features and giving real-world analysis of their implementation. So much of the rest simply regurgitate the specs without critically employing them. Its all been very reaffirming and I can’t wait for my D850 to arrive and take a spot alongside my D500.
I’d like to pick up on a point you touched on at least twice in the review and a real pet peeve of mine when it comes to Nikon – the lack of follow up firmware development. It really isn’t acceptable in this day and age of concerns about resource use, environmental cost etc… for manufacturers to not be seriously evaluating the longevity of their products. But not only should they be doing everything they can to prolong the useful life of the billions of units of electronic devices but for the cost of their products they should be providing far better, longer feature support. It is simply unethical for consumer goods manufacturers to place arbitrary throttles on the release of technology to ensure premature obsolescence. I understand the need for profit but at some point we’re going to have to face the monumental cost of all the resources going to waste purely in the pursuit of the bottom line. Nikon could be amongst the leaders in reducing their footprint by maximizing the longevity of their products through vastly improved firmware support. The list is endless but is it truly not possible for the D500 touchscreen to be completely enabled? Why aren’t DSLR sensors upgradeable? I’d love to see some of the passion expressed here for wildlife, creativity and the natural world channeled into lobbying to taking better care of it.
Thing is, if Nikon did it, they’d sell less product, and Sony would own the whole world then! You have to accept that these manufacturers are fundamentally just businesses looking to make money. The competition between them all drives progress, which spawns the obsolescence you talk of. In truth, there is only so far you can go with firmware – imagine a 2009 Nikon D5000 @ 12 Mp – what could you do for that, in today’s high res world?
Sad fact is, until they ALL do it, none of them can AFFORD to do it, as it would be lighting the touchpaper for lower sales and eventual wipeout.
Nasim forgive me if I missed this but is the dynamic range of the D850 at low ISO better than the D810? or is it like the D5 compared to the D4 where the D5 has improved dynamic range only at high ISO ?
What i see is improved colour separation. better colour at high and low iso
High ISO s are better by 1 stop making 6400 asa usable ( d810 stopt at 3200 for me)
At base iso not much has changed except for colour and more pixels.
I’ve read that the electronic rangefinder in the D850 is now significantly more accurate. Can you comment as to whether or not the green dot now has enough precision to reliably focus manual lenses such as Zeiss Milvus or Otus.
Thanks!
How is the image sharpness using the D850 handheld with the Nikon 24-120 VR lens? Given the high megapixel count, is a tripod mandatory for getting sharp images with this camera? Would a sony with 5 axis in body stabilization be a better option if you shoot handheld as much as possible? Thank you…
As i understand:
(but correct me if wrong)
the D850 has this nice feature to turn raw into JPeg – and very fast, however…
the resulting jpegs have not the same name as the Raws… ( counting just continues) making it less useful…
Hi Nassim,
Thank you for your great work as usual.
What do you make of DXOMark rating the low ISO of the D850 at 2660? It makes sense to me considering the MP size.
The D600 was 2980, the D810 was 2853. Now the D850 is 2660. I own both a D600 and D810, and though the D810 is far superior in almosr every regard, the low light performance of the D600 is better…
Thoughts?
Hello Nasim,
Hope you are well.
I wanted to ask if you have encountered the issue where a prime lens needs different AF Fine Tune adjustment for different shooting length. I am experiencing this and depreview also experienced this in their review. For me, all my lenses needs fine tuning, which is not an issue. But for example, If I fine tune the body for my 105mm F/1.4E lens at let’s say 2-3 meters from the subject, and then try to focus on the subject from 6-7 meters, I find the tuning is not working, the camera front focuses. So it looks like the primes will need different focus adjustment for different shooting distances, which is something the in-body AF system cannot do.
This is the issue dpreview found here: www.dpreview.com/revie…on-d850/11
I appreciate this review and the fact that it keeps getting updated as time goes on. Especially enjoying the continued argument among readers,
“Nikon’s Best!”
“No, Canon!”
“Sony! Sony!”
“Nuh-uh! Nikon!”
“Well Sony goes up to 11!”
I like to say that the best camera in the world is one you know how to use and enjoy shooting with. Fine imagery is in the hands of the end user, not the manufacturer.
I used to take killer photos with a Pentax Spotmatic. Later I bought a Minolta 7000 Maxim and was so pleased. Then, when I went digital, I began to make amazing poster-size prints with a 9MP D200. When I got a D7000, I started making amazing photos with that. But the D800 came out and I had to have it. I mean, 36MP! Who wouldn’t want that? Then a D750 came along…..etc..
The only constant has been my continued dedication to the craft of creating images. Do I want a D850? Yup. Will I buy one? Probably. Is it better than a Sony? Depends. Who’s using it?
FYI – I just got a stellar deal on a practically unused D3s with 5k on the shutter. I’m getting fantastic results with it. As an added bonus, editing a weddings worth of 12MP stills is so much faster. I’m just sayin….
I appreciate this review and the fact that it keeps getting updated as time goes on. Especially enjoying the continued argument among readers,
“Nikon’s Best!”
“No, Canon!”
“Sony! Sony!”
“Nuh-uh! Nikon!”
“Well my Sony goes up to 11.”
I like to say that the best camera in the world is actually one you know how to and enjoy using. Fine imagery is in the hands of the end user, not the manufacturer.
I used to take killer photos with a Pentax Spotmatic. Later I bought a Minolta 7000 Maxim and was so pleased. Then, when I went digital, I began to make amazing poster-size prints with a 9MP D200. When I got a D7000, I started making amazing photos with that. But the D800 came out and I had to have it. I mean, 36MP! Who wouldn’t want that? Then a D750 came along…..etc..
The only constant has been my continued dedication to the craft of creating images. Do I want a D850? Yup. Will I buy one? Probably. Is it better than a Sony? Depends. Who’s using it?
FYI – I just got a stellar deal on a practically unused D3s with 5k on the shutter. I’m getting fantastic results with it. As an added bonus, editing a weddings worth of 12MP stills is so much faster. I’m just sayin….
very good pointed !!!
Hi Nasim, thanks for the great review, as always. I have bought a D850 and as with my D610 previously, I cannot coax it into gapless star trails using the intervalometer (like you can do with the X-T2). On the D610 I had to set an interval of 33s for a 30s exposure and quick testing with the D850 seems to be the same, though I have not tried XQD yet. Anybody know if I’m missing something here? Long exp. NR is off. It looks like it cannot write to the card while exposing the next photo which is compounded by insisting on a 1s interval granularity; i.e. you cannot say “as soon as you can” like the focus stacking feature.
fyi….
I just read this feedback on NikonGear ” Since I got the Firmware 1.01 I experience flaws in the White Balance and sometimes I can not get into the menu, while I can still take photos. Strange.
I also experience a better high ISO performance, comparable or better than the D500.”
Regarding the use of magnesium, the old Japanese made D800 had a magnesium main fame, mirror box and top and rear covers. There were some problems of the lens mount attachment point cracking.
Nikon moved the production of the subsequent D810 to Thailand. It has a CRP main frame and mirror box (carbon reinforced plastic) with top and rear magnesium covers. The bottom and front covers are CRP and polycarbonate.
The D850 is all magnesium with stress areas beefed up. A return to the really strong Nikon build quality era and as good as the flagship !
In the Canon world only the top end 1 D series has all magnesium internals. The lens mount screws into a CRP mirrorbox which is attached to the plastic mainframe on the 5D series.
Extremely useful review, sir. You must be having fun with the camera in between.
I seem to see a problem with focussing with a 500mm and convertor in low contrast situations, compared to D800. D850 sets it out to hunt. Situations were a white bird to far away on dull water on a dark and dull day, and shooting through coated glass into my garden focussing with one of the non-central focus points. These are of course not the type of photos that are going to make a photographer famous, but well, D800 does the job. My D850 doesn’t. Yet focussing with all other lenses much and much better.
Maybe you heard of this before?
Hi Nasim,
I can’t agree the we need in body image stabilisation or pixel shift or any other gimmick in a D7** or D8** camera range leave them for the mirrorless offering. Just capture the photon as cleanly as possible to deliver the best image possible. This is Nikon’s philosophy and it is born out by your amazing images captured by the D850.
Hi Nasim. I am fully committed to Nikon gear but find myself having to consider Sony because of specific functions that the Sony mirrorless have: eye autofocus and face autofocus, as well as high quality autofocus when viewing the LCD instead of viewfinder (“Live View”). Other Sony advantages are useful but not so pivotal: silent shutter and in-body stabilization.
To me the advantage of Nikon has been vastly more reliable and mature system than Sony. Even in my testing prior Sony models operated oddly slowly or flakey.
Nevertheless when I shoot events with Nikon I find myself doing “focus and recompose” with my D810 and D750 merely to focus on a face. When I tested models of the Sony mirrorless in the past, I found that the eye / face autofocus was not always a blessing because of the times that it would choose the wrong face, but, the latest Sony camera has a button you can use to over-ride face/eye autofocus and drop into using the joy stick for selecting a focus point.
Question:
Does the Nikon D850 have effective eye or face recognition in the viewfinder? Prior FF Nikons only had very limited face autofocus, only in live view only, and even there it was not so effective in my experience. I’m optimistic about the D850 because the autofocus screen has 180000+ points which might be adequate to support facial recognition, at the least. But I don’t know.
Thanks very much,
Art
Hi….awesome detailed review. Great
There’s one more thing i would like to get your experienced suggestions on. I have heard(not verified still) that due to high resolution of the D850 it’s more prone to camera shakes/blurred images….however I see a lot of your sample images at shutter speeds 1/160, 1/60, 1/40. Just wanted to know whether these were handheld or taken on a tripod.
Thanks in advance
Hello, same question. I’d like to add a new camera to my good&old d3s. I Don’t need 45mpx, I thought about mRaw but I saw this article
neilvn.com/tange…iles-soft/
d750 it’s sharp than d850 mRaw :/ Of course it’s nitpick.
I’m interesting to use it in many field but more in wildlife/nature not only BIF.
I fear of the high resolution and blurred images more than anything with the d850. Specially I’ve a 500mm without VR and I’m use to shoot handheld, sometimes I use tripod but I don’t do hide.
Can you confirm, thanks
Looking at picture made with this camera online, something strikes me, which is very rarely mentioned in reviews:
– it has a much better tri-dimensional rendition than any other 24×36 nikon SLR, other do have a “flatter” rendition (by the way, I agree that current Sigma lenses, which so many people rave about have a “dull” flat rendition; very detailed, but flat… Sold my ART 50mm 1.4)
– the transition between shades and highlight is muuuuch smoother
– color rendition is much better, particularly the tonal transitions within a same color…so it seems
That, I really like. How will these perception render with prints? I wonder. For me, the final destiny of a picture is printed, and certainly not “pixel peeped at”…
Thanks for all the good reviews!
Cheers
Pierre
I am primarily a landscape photographer currently using the D810 and would consider upgrading. While a minor detail for most, I like the built-in flash for front-lighting faces in dusk/dawn shots and simple interior nighttime photography. This would preclude me from upgrading. Why did Nikon make the decision, and is it possible a version will be offered with b-i flash?
I do not like the ON-SENSOR PDAF. I think it’s a plus that the D850 doesn’t have them.
Not having them gives you better IQ.
Sony mirrorless has this problem with the on board PDAF sensors making banding.
Running the sensor on all the time generates heat, and heat generates hot pixels and noise.
That’s why DSLR will always have better image quality… even if it’s only 1% better, it is still better.
A wise word to those who are shooting APS-C or a slightly lower resolution FX such as a D600 / D610 and are considering the D850 now.
First thing to say is, IF you can afford it (as a hobby / enthusiast) then, you just have to go out and get one. If it means sacrificing choice of lenses by not leaving enough money for good glass, I have another solution for you to consider.
Before I reveal that solution, ask yourself a few questions. Do you really need higher FPS shooting, the new focus modes, exposure modes and image formats provided by the new model? Do you (mostly) shoot still life, macro, landscape & wedding / social subjects, or are you into sports or action photography big time? Do you enlarge your work to humungous print sizes?
Until the D850 emerged last year, the king of the Nikon range was the D810. Overnight, it seems this older model has been consigned to history – but has it really? Well, unless your needs are more specialised, then the D810 is still the brilliant camera it has been since it arrived on the market. It delivers amazing image quality, which is the primary aim of a stills camera, and has a zillion features, most of which very few people will ever use in the field.
You will find, in the UK anyway, the price DIFFERENCE between the D850 and D810 bodies is around £1000 which is approx $1357.
You could buy the 14-24mm f/2.8 ED lens AND the D810 for the price of a D850 body. For an enthusiast, the joy of owning that D850 might seduce you strongly enough, and, if you are that keen, and can afford it, go for it, of course. I am only trying to show you here that there is an alternative. The D850 is a fine camera, but the used value will drop like a stone, especially if / when Nikon release a successor. It is highly likely that all future models from them will be mirrorless, in which case, let us pray they’re going to accept our existing glass.
Against a backdrop of impending higher resolution models in the pipeline, do you really think the D850 is a wise purchase right now? I guess your heart is saying yes, and your mind is saying, oooer… we’ve all been there looking at the newer models over the years – so just think about this… When you’ve unboxed that shiny new camera and, taken it out several times to test it out etc, what are you left with? Yep, it is only a camera. At that stage you will be able to answer some of the questions I posed at the start of my post today – and you just ‘might’ regret springing for a body that costs as much as the D810 complete with one of the ‘trinity’ lenses.
I know how large I make my prints, and the D810 is way more than enough for that – 30″ x 40″ – so as long as my composition is good, and I am not relying on extensive cropping (taking away more than 15% of the image area) I am not only happy, but stuck too, as, there is no way I could justify blowing so much money on a body.
If I shot a lot of sports / action, or of course, shot professionally, then the reverse argument is true – in that situation I could not afford NOT to buy a D850.
I hope you’ll take this collection of slightly random thoughts and go away and think about this. If you are a D810 owner, you’ll most likely be like me, thinking, best to hold on until we see what these mirrorless beasts can do. Rumours right now seem to tell us to expect news, if not product, before the end of 2018. If they’re going with in body stabilisation, 80Mp sensors (or more!) and work perfectly with the existing DSLR lens line up, then the upgrade twitch will hit me, and hard. Meanwhile, anyone unsure about the cost of the D850, if you can’t truly justify it to yourself, then you should at least take a long hard look at the D810. Only months ago, it was their top end camera, after all.
This might be a trade secret of yours, and i’m not sure if you’ve ever covered it before in one of your articles, but how in the heck do you get such amazingly sharp landscape photos? The micro-sharpness is like nothing i’ve ever seen; every detail seems to pop and stand out against contrasting colours and edges.
I’ve love to know your technique.
Hello, Nasim!
Have you tried shooting Nikkor 18-35G with D850? That lens is my primary lens for landscapes on my current D610, and I like it mostly because of its weight, and because it accepts screw-in filters. The difference in sharpness between that lens and Sigma 24/1.4 Art on D610 is insignificant for landscapes to my opinion. The Sigma has edge only in that it is far better distortion-corrected. I am considering the D850, but if the difference between the mentioned two lenses will become too apparent on that almost double resolution, I might go another route for a lighter body, since I prefer working with zooms, than fixed-focus lenses for landscapes.
Note that Helicon Focus is only HeliconSoft’s processing app. For shooting you should try Helicon Remote which is included in the Helicon Focus Pro package.
Helicon Remote allows you to set the near/far focus points and, depending on the f/stop used (ie: depth of field), it calculates then necessary number of photos needed. It then takes control of the camera and automatically creates the exposures while setting the focus. The images are then passed to the Helicon Focus app which processes the stack.
There’s also a version of Helicon Remote that works on mobile phones (Android, iOS) and it works great. It takes the guess work out of focus stacking and eliminates making more exposures than needed. That’s especially useful when shooting 45mp raw images which consume a lot of storage space.
Thanks for all the work you do to inform us Nasim. My question is one I can’t seem to find an answer for. When I’m viewing a image after taking on the Lcd Screen, I would like to have some ideas of what magnification each step is. Like where does 100% magnification reside in the steps. Is there a chart that says what each step is magnification wise. Nikon is clueless which is totally surprising to me.
There are always many sides to the same story, eh? As long as DSLRs are still in production the D850 will be the pinnacle of achievement that any new Nikon DSLRs evolve from. I shot Nikon 35mm for 30 years and then switched to Canon for digital for the next ten years. I loved my Canon full frame cameras, especially the 6D, but when the D800 came out I decided to switch back to Nikon and have owned the D800, D800E and the D810.
I recently bought a Nikon Z7. I shoot both wildlife and landscapes and have a lot of Nikon F glass and I thought it would be a good benefit to add a little VR to my lenses that lack it. I did not buy the new 24-70mm Z lens since I recently bought a new Nikon 24-70 f/2.8, a lens I love. However, after playing with the Z7 for a while with the lens adapter and various F lenses I found it very uncomfortable to hand hold with the adapter. Although I do a lot of my shooting on a tripod, there are times when I’m walking and want to be able to shoot hand-held. The other thing I found and didn’t like, something everyone else seems to love, was the EVF. When panning quickly it seemed to lag. I realize that may be something that will be improved with firmware, but I also just didn’t like the experience compared to my D810. If I could afford to use a Z7 strictly for landscapes I may have kept it. I do think that as more lenses become available the hand-held experience will improve greatly. And, let’s face it: it is the future of digital photography. I look forward to owning a future generation of the Z7 in the not too distant future—but for now I find my new D850 to be a phenomenal camera.
The D850 is simply beyond reproach, if you’re a Nikon shooter. I agree with Nasim, it’s an expensive proposition to switch from Nikon to Canon or Sony or vice verse if you have more than one or two expensive lenses. And there are often other peripheral accessories to consider as well, like flash units, wireless remote release or release cables and so on. However it’s a personal choice and decision that each of us has to make according to our needs and economics.
These pictures really are amazing. As much as I’d like to buy a Z6 or Z7, I look at this review and others and just can’t do it. I’m sure that day will come, but by then I’ll probably just buy a D850 and ride it into the sunset. Just fantastic images.
Why all the focus on “mirrorless” cameras?
I see little reason to swap my D850 for a mirrorless.
The view through an optical viewfinder is visibly better and sharper than an electronic projection, and this is my clear impression even if the EVF can strengthen the signal in the dark – and as a result lose finder quality/DR. This is even more the case when using manual lenses. The mirrorless cameras do not do wide open metering, and the photographer must revert to old-style stop down metering – a true regression. When the EVF compensates for the loss of light that occurs when you stop down to the working aperture, the quality of the viewfinder takes a hit – and it was inferior to a good optical finder to start with. So my conclusion is that for manual lenses, a (D)SLR is far superior.
Moreover, there are still more important advantages.
The optical finder does not consume energy. When using the camera for longer periods of time, a finder that does not drain the battery is worth its weight in gold in particular in cold environments. It is realistic to get at least three times the number of exposures per charge with a SLR camera as compared to a mirrorless with a similar battery.
Technically speaking, it is difficult to see how a modern prism based optical finder of high quality is somehow “primitive” and “backward.” Optics is superior to electronics when it comes to viewing, and this is unlikely to be different in the future. In fact, an high grade optical optical instrument is a highly sophisticated and advanced invention. A OVF is such an instrument.
If the optical viewfinder did not exist by now, it is not inconceivable that it would have been invented.
Hi Nassim and thanks for the deep dive review. Most excellent as always.
Quickie theoretical question: can the same focus stack from the D850 be used for HDR (or the other way around)? So that the boosted EV range is graduated throughout the focus stack. I guess it’d have to be done in conjunction with a hybrid stacking/HDR program…. which does not exist… I guess I was just talking to myself. Now if only Helicon buys Photomatix :-D
Imagine if you can take an image of a dark lake against white mountains, preserved the dynamic range AND focus-stacked the whole lot? Maybe moot given the superb dynamic range of the D850 :)